Sunday, March 11, 2018

A certain degree of value

A student is suing her university, alleging that the course was crap. Quelle surprise!

But here is a lovely comment on the situation...
Amatey Doku, National Union of Students vice president for higher education, said the fact student complaints are becoming “increasingly common” proves the current system is not working.

“With fees now so high, and students accruing such unsustainable levels of debt, it is no wonder that some students feel they have no choice but to demand more from their courses, and to seek recourse if those standards are not met.

“This is an obvious consequence of government policy to transform Higher Education into a market, with students pushed into the role of consumers.”

Students have been "pushed into the role of consumers", eh? And they have "no choice but to demand more from their courses"?

So, what is the implication here?

It's pretty clear, I think: students were entirely happy to put up with crappy, "mickey mouse" degrees as long as someone else* was paying for it.

* i.e. the taxpayer.

9 comments:

Lord Blagger said...

https://www.theguardian.com/education/ng-interactive/2017/may/16/university-league-tables-2018

Has the money spent per student.

Compare that with the tuition fees.

The difference is profit.

Hector Drummond, Vile Novelist said...

Two lies in there:

"students accruing such unsustainable levels of debt"

They aren't ubsustainable. They're paid back only when you are making decent money, and at a slow and affordable rate. They're nothing like real loans.

'This is an obvious consequence of government policy to transform Higher Education into a market, with students pushed into the role of consumers.'

But it isn't a real market. There's an unrealistic cap on fees. And the government props up all the Universities.

Hector Drummond, Vile Novelist said...

"Has the money spent per student.
Compare that with the tuition fees.
The difference is profit."

That's quite simplistic. There's a lot more involved in a University than just money (supposedly) spent on students. (I can't see any such amounts on that league table, but I wouldn't trust any of the figures on these tables anyway, they're generally BS).

I'm not going to disagree if we're talking about money wasted by Unis, though...

Lord Blagger said...

There's an unrealistic cap on fees.

The evidence is that they are charging more than cost.

You claim the opposite.


https://www.theguardian.com/education/ng-interactive/2017/may/16/university-league-tables-2018

Lord Blagger said...

There's a lot more involved in a University than just money (supposedly) spent on students.

===========

So the universities profiteer, force the students to fund other things.

You've got the evidence they are making whopping profits out of students.

Rich Tee said...

What makes me laugh about that is that she disrupted a grdauation ceremony to prove her point. Thereby demonstarting that she is too stupid to realise that it is a stupid place to make such a complaint, and that she has little concern for the feelings of other people.

And she could have left that bit out of the legal action as well, but was too stupid to do that.

Hector Drummond, Vile Novelist said...

"The evidence is that they are charging more than cost."

You mean the spend per student column? That looks totally unreliable to me. There's no easy way to ascertain 'spend per student' for one thing. And richer Universities count as spending more per student because they have more money from other sources. And if one place pays its lecturers more, I expect that counts as spending more on a student.

"So the universities profiteer, force the students to fund other things."

Some Universities make money. Some are in debt. That's not 'profiteering'. And nobody's forcing students to fund anything. There more realistic issues are, is it worth getting future debt to go to a weaker University? Generally the answer is no. And, 'should taxpayers be forced to pay for these Universities?' Because it's taxpayers, not students, who are being forced to pay against their will. (Student fees do not even come close to covering the cost of the University sector.)

"You've got the evidence they are making whopping profits out of students."

There is no good evidence that they are making 'whopping' profits. Most Universities are in debt, some deeply so. But there are concerns that many Universities are now wasting money on rubbish, as well as pouring large amounts of money into the useless bureaucracy.

Lord Blagger said...

Yep, spend per student.

Your argument doesn't hold up.

If they get money from elsewhere they are still charging 9.2K a year.

That includes paying people more.

It's profiteering. The mark up on a degree is huge.

Student fees should not cover the entire university costs. Student fees should cover the cost of their education and no more.

So they are making whopping profits OUT OF UNDERGRADUATES.

Anonymous said...

I used to work for a famous university in their admin department. The moment they started
charging fees, the amount of complaints about lecturers, standard of teaching, facilities,
state of halls of residence, etc, went up ten fold. The legal department had to double its
staff in order to cope. To balance the books, the university went on shopping trips for
overseas students, since they paid double, sometimes triple the fees. My own department
underwent a modernisation programme and launched a brand new glass fronted, all singing and
dancing building. Unfortunately, it proved so expensive the university went million pounds
over budget and almost went bust. Heads rolled.

A rubbish fairytale

Inspired by this photo, delivered to your humble Devil's Facebook timeline... And the government of 500 million of those 8 billion pe...