Sunday, April 04, 2010

Farage and the Conservatives

Via Timmy, who is utterly unsurprised, Conservative MP John Redwood is whining about Farage standing against John Bercow.
More importantly it means Mr Farage himself, the most newsworthy of the UKIP slate, is not taking the fight to a leading federalist MP and putting him on the spot as to why he has sold the UK down the river and done so much damage to our democracy by giving away so much power. Surely UKIP should be tearing into Lib Dem and Labour federalists who led the charge to damage our democracy by such huge transfers of decision making? Why isn’t Mr Farage standing against Mr Cable, for example?

For fuck's sake, Redwood, I wish you Conservatives would stop bitching and moaning about how the Tories are the only EUsceptic party in this country—you aren't because you aren't EUsceptic.
  • Which party took us into the EU under the auspices of the European Communities Act? The Conservatives.

  • Which party signed up to the Single European Act? Oh, will you look at that? It's the Conservatives again.

  • Which party signed us up to the Maastricht Treaty? Oh, well, fuck me—it's the Conservative Party yet again!

And let's face it, the only reason that John Major didn't sign us up to the Euro too is because he buggered up the economy so comprehensively that—after crashing out of the ERM—we weren't allowed to.

Remind me, John, at what point have the Conservatives ever stood up and defended Britain's interests against the EU project? And no, Thatcher's hissy-fit over the amount that we pay in does not count—ultimately, she did nothing practical to oppose the process of integration one jot—she just whined about the cost of it.

Ultimately, John, if the Conservatives really are a EUsceptic party then we voters can only conclude that the Tories are all mouth and no fucking trousers.


Ian E said...

When they give us a substantive vote on our relationship with the EUrinal is the day I will listen to suggestions that the Cons are Eurosceptics!

Anonymous said...

IMF and ERM - The parties that broke Britain:

john in cheshire said...

To Mr Redwood,
the EU if THE issue of the decade(s). Any MP who is pro-EU should be fought against and please God, defeated. Everything else is a secondary issue. Bercow is part of the EU problem. I'd support the devil himself if he would take us out of this satanic web of deceit and lies. But then he wouldn't, would he.

Anonymous said...

Completely off topic, but what became of It was rather useful for checking who not to donate to.

Devil's Kitchen said...

Server problems—am sorting it out...


Anonymous said...

Can't think why all the Tories are now backing Bercow. There's Redwood quoted here, there is the mandatory instruction from CCHQ to campaign for Bercow or keep shut up amidst rumours that many local Tory activists are campaigning for Phillips.

When Bercow got his coveted turn on the Speaker's Chair, he had to leave his political party (as they all do). Bercow was quoted as saying it was the easiest decision of his political life to leave the Tories.

I wonder if they really want him back as Speaker in the next Parliament so that they can humiliate him by taking the chair off him?

Anonymous said...

What an abject load of shite. Redwood is absolutely right and you're talking out of your (Libertarian) backside.

Anonymous said...

The comments on the Redwood site seem to prove anon wrong, last time I looked they were very scathing of his position. But yes DK is correct, the tories have form.


Ian B said...

To be fair to Thatch, she was deposed by the Tory grandees when her EUscepticism became too strident. She'd realised she'd been naive about the Single European Act, I think.

So they got rid of her and replaced her with the more compliant, wet, Major.

James Higham said...

For fuck's sake, Redwood, I wish you Conservatives would stop bitching and moaning about how the Tories are the only EUsceptic party in this country—you aren't because you aren't EUsceptic.

As is the case with LPUK leaders. They just won't give the people a voice so we can get out of this monstrosity.

Never mind, all parties will get there's if a hung parliament drags on for any length of time.

Devil's Kitchen said...


"As is the case with LPUK leaders. They just won't give the people a voice so we can get out of this monstrosity."

I am really tired of you constantly lying, lying and lying. Why don't you stop lying, James?

For those of you not familiar with this argument, the Libertarian Party manifesto states our position on the EU quite clearly:

"The Libertarian Party would take the UK out of the European Union. There are a myriad of reasons why straightforward trading arrangements with our European friends would prove economically more beneficial to UK citizens and businesses than full membership, but purely financial matters should not be our overriding concern. What really matters is our sovereignty—the ability for the UK to make its own decisions in its own interests. We find ourselves today in a position where EU law takes precedence over our own, and where EU rules and directives control the daily lives of UK citizens.

"Incredibly, it would actually be legally impossible for the Libertarian Party to implement much of the manifesto that you are now reading if we remained within the EU—even something as fundamental as our national VAT regime is now determined at a European level. Whilst the UK remains part of the European superstate, it is largely irrelevant which party is elected to Westminster; the hands of our national politicians are tied by the faceless bureaucrats in Brussels. That's simply ridiculous, and we believe that decisions about how the UK is governed really belongs to one group of people, and to those people alone—the citizens of our country."

Unfortunately, James cannot see why the Libertarian Party would not want to be associated with a bunch of liars and nutters—such as himself—and has accused the Libertarian Party leaders of being bought by the EU.

In fact, our position is rather clearer than that of the Albion Alliance: there would be no referendum under a Libertarian government—we would simply leave.


James Higham said...

DK, with the most enormous and eternal respect:

I never lie, as regular readers over my way know full well. Everything has a source. Here's yours:

"Much better to have the referendum in, say, five years—when the British people have realised the full horror of the Lisbon Treaty—and we can guarantee the result."

"The pro-EU forces have dined out of the strength of a referendum on the Common Market for nearly forty years—we simply cannot risk another “stay in” vote."

Now that's the Tory line exactly and you'd know very well, assuming you've read through the raft of legislation awaiting the GE that there IS no taking out after five years. It's the con-trick the Tories are pulling, it's been written about by pundits and I'd assume you'd know it before any of us mortals did.

Lisbon is self-amending and there will be no UK to take out through the ECA. The terms are down for alteration as we write.

Now, if you DO know your stuff,DK, then who is lying? If you DON'T know your stuff, then better you start reading, old chap.

And let's leave out all this childish name calling - let's stick to the issues.

Devil's Kitchen said...


I am sick and tired of going through the same fucking issues with you, you tedious little cunt.

1) You quote my personal belief, not Libertarian Party policy. I can only assume that this is a deliberate conflation in order to make it look like they are the same thing. They aren't, because Libertarian Party policy is voted on by the members—not make up by me.

2) That isn't the Tory line. The Tories are not offering a referendum on Lisbon because it's been ratified.

3) The only similarity with Libertarian Party policy is that we, also, are not offering a referendum—we would leave.

4) I haven't been "bought off" by any EU agencies. No EU funds have passed into my bank account or that of the party. That, sunshine, was touching on the libellous.

5) I was writing about the self-amending nature of this Treaty before you were even aware of the damn thing.

6) There is a way out: Lisbon is an amending treaty—unlike the EU Constitution—and is thus still governed (as are all the other EU treaties) by the European Communities Act. That is the only Act that gives the EU treaties force in English law.

7) We. Would. Leave. What are France and Germany going to do? Invade us? Or will we be suborned by the Common Force Storm Troopers...? I don't think so.

8) Even if this weren't "legal", since we will withdraw from the UN, the World Court, etc., so who gives a crap?

9) Common Purpose are a bunch of not very good "leadership trainers" who happen to have good public sector links. They are not the new masters of the world.

10) 9/11 wasn't an inside job.

11) No aliens landed at Roswell.

Get a grip, Higham. God knows I try to ignore your piss-poor writing, your godawful conspiracy theories and your inane witterings, but it's really difficult when you come and spread lies over here.


James Higham said...

Personal insults rather than arguments - the DK way.

James Higham said...

Article going up about midday today partly on DK's faux euro-scepticism and how he's pulling the wool over Libertarian eyes.

Devil's Kitchen said...


"Personal insults rather than arguments - the DK way."

No: personal insults mixed with facts: that's the DK way.

"Article going up about midday today partly on DK's faux euro-scepticism and how he's pulling the wool over Libertarian eyes."

Excellent! I shall send the link to my lawyer.


Devil's Kitchen said...

P.S. I'm not a "euro-sceptic", James: I'm an EUnihilist: in other words, I'm gone way beyond being sceptical of the EU—I think that the bloody thing shouldn't exist.


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