Wednesday, August 27, 2008

Sunny, meet facts; facts, meet Sunny

A number of people have commented on Liberal Conspiracy's latest... er... conspiracy.
As its a slow news day, I might as well highlight this blog post at the Guido Fawkes blog. Paul Staines asks: ‘Is Brown bonkers?’, adding later on that:
It is low politics to hurl cheap abuse at opponents, but this is not borne of malice towards Brown, Guido feels like the boy who pointed at the naked emperor and said what everyone was too embarrassed to say.

Erm, yeah right. He’s as concerned about Brown’s sanity as I am about trainspotting. What Staines is doing, and what the political right excels at, is starting and constantly promoting malicious narratives. Their hope is that it becomes a talking point for the mainstream media and that is how he becomes framed.

Whereas the Left would never contemplate such a thing, of course. Except...

Well, it's just that, in the comments, Sunny wheels a few "malicious narratives" himself.
I feel sorry for people like you, I really do. This is the level of intelligence that the political right has. Jeez.

Narrative #1: that the "political Right" are more than a bit thick. Of course, given the fact that it is the Left who continue to fly in the face of sixty years of failure by continuing to back the current Welfare State, one might question their intelligence—especially when, in other countries, we can see Welfare Service systems that work a fuck sight better.

Narrative #2:: but, of course, one of the most popular narratives that the Left love to employ is that of the unsurpassed evil of the Thatcher years.
Chas, why not compare the increasing level of inequality between Labour rule and Tory rule, and then come back to me. I think you’ll find inequality increasing massively during Tory rule. But don’t let facts stand in your way!

Ah, yes: the facts. Shall we have a look at some facts? Tell you what, let's look at an interesting table of data from the ONS, plotting Marketable Wealth from 1976–2003.

There! Do you see it?—that massive spike of inequality in the 80s? Do you see how equal everyone was in the 70s and how everyone is much more equal now?

What do you mean, "am I looking at the same graph as you?" Can't you see... Oh, right.

This is the level of intelligence (and accuracy) that the political left displays*. Jeez. Still, never mind, Sunny: don’t let facts stand in your way, eh?

Oh, and don't let the door hit your arse on the way out of the blogosphere, either, you twat.

On the central question, I neither know nor care whether Brown is a certifiable nutjob; as far as I am concerned, he is such an evil little cunt that he should be hanged from the Tyburn tree—whether he is mad, bad, sad or glad—as soon as is inhumanly possible.

His disgustingly cynical shafting of the poor alone should condemn him to spend his last few minutes tap-dancing on air whilst the ragged children throw rocks at his twitching bulk, the ravens tear out his remaining sighted eye and his heartbeat slowly ceases.

As for apologists like Sunny Hundal... well... over to you, chaps...

* I am exaggerating, of course. It would be a pity to tar decent lefties who do their research (or, indeed, any research) with the Sunny Hundal brush...


Anonymous said...

Sunny: don’t let facts stand in your way, eh?

Facts eh. We you know what they say about stats - someone who can at least rub two braincells toegther should be able to figure that one out.

I refer you to this:



Anonymous said...

All you need to know about the egregious Sunny Hundal can be summed up by his late (and mealy-mouthed) 'support' for Harry's Place in yesterday's attack on them.

The man is a weasel of the first order, and none of his utterings deserve more than a quirked eyebrow...

Anonymous said...

Neither of Sunny's links support his assertions (as expected), but the comment from 'newmania' in the second one is a must-read.

Fucking delicious!

Cult-worshipping party-political sycophants like Sunny (and industrial-scale mass murder) give the Left a bad name.

Anonymous said...

@Sunny: Neither of those articles contradict DK's statement and provided stats; specifically that inequality was not higher under Tory rule than it is now (after 11 years of Labour rule).

In fact the second article is all about the increase in inequality over the past decade. DK never said this wasn't the case, and indeed it helps confirm the veracity of what he did say, i.e. that just 1 year after Tory rule ended inequality was lower than it is now 11 years after it ended.


Anonymous said...

Could people like Sunny H simply answer the one question that ultimately matters: is Britain better now than it was twelve or thirteen years ago?

I'm not talking about stirring party speeches and countless 'initiatives,' nor about plans and promises or even manifestos. I am not even talking about a desire for social justice and change. I am asking in what ways have all the years of rule by New Labour improved our lot.

So the question that needs answering is straightforward: do we have a better society and with it more fulfilled citizens in 2008 than we had in the mid 1990s?

I have no doubt there would be a resounding yes from all sorts of socialists and left-wingers and Labour supporters, but I would love to hear among that chorus any concrete details to support the claim. Until I can hear those details I - like so many other ordinary citizens - must look at the shambles of the past 11 years or so, with all its political corruption, fraudulence in parliament, increased taxes, declining freedoms and fudging of issues.

I will certainly change my mind when it can be demonstrated that we are now happier as a nation, enjoy more justice, have better prospects for personal growth and development, are better off financially and we exhibit a growing confidence in our leaders. If it can be shown that all is well and our government makes the right decisions for our nation, rather than devolve all decisions to whimsy, jealousy, dogma and the EU, then I will accept I was wrong to doubt.

Mark Wadsworth said...

This whole 'inequality' thing is a red herring. It's low and average earners we should be concerned about.

Reducing taxes (and benefit withdrawal) on low to average earners is easy and relatively cheap (in terms of lost tax revenues); as is increasing employment levels (scrapping Employer's National Insurance, getting rid of regulations, scrap NMW, leaving EU etc) thereby making it easier for people to work (in the most literal sense) their way out of poverty and/or up the ladder.

If thereby the filthy rich get even filthy richer, then so be it (as ever, Land Value Tax will sort them out, tee hee).

Anonymous said...

What is interesting about the figures in the ONS graph is not that inequality didn't soar under the Tories but that the rate of growth in the total marketable wealth has slowed so hugely since 1999.

Is it me or has the slowdown in the rate of increase in the wealth pie being shared out very very marked in the years after 1999. And when was it again when Brown ditched Major's spending plans?

Anonymous said...

Sorry, red herring. Didn't notice the time periods radically changed.

76-86: 341% increase
86-96: 219% increase
96-03(three years short): 180% increase

Unless I got that wrong too. ;)

Anonymous said...

Sunny Delight and those of his ilk just don't get it, do they.

It IS the utter and complete contempt that NuLabour show the electorate, time after time after time.

Whenever the next GE will be, and whenever and wherever any byelection is held, they will get a good and complete kicking.

They are a dead party walking.

The electorate will never trust them again ever. Any manifesto promise they give is worthless.

OK they have mad heaps of bad and terrible decisions, but the referendum promise IS the straw that broke the elector's back.

Socialism is dead, we know it, best get troughing while you still can.

Anonymous said...

I hate Sunny Hundal.
He banned me when I had not insulted him and had agreed with him and then he insulted me. I do not get him.
I spoke up for his fucking left wing views and he still banned me.
I supported him on windfall tax said howwrong it was to call the PM mad. I got banned just plain because the guy did not like me, and not because of my views he is just a bastard in my view.
The guy just just did not like me. Normally i just get insulted by you lot for being left wing this cunt just banned me, bascially out of hatred when he has never even me met. I hate sunny hundal he is a shit.
If sikhs are like this Ahole, then I hope I never meet one.

He allowed some shit called conchis on his blog to call me a freak, then refused me to be allowed to insult him back and he tolerates bullies on his blog but noe people to insult them back. I hate sunny he is not sunny his a shit. Heis not sikh he is shiiiiit.

Anonymous said...

I am against Sunny Hundal I do think he is very bright his arguments are rtubbish. How the heck he is a liberal champion is beyond me he bans people from his blog.

No wonder indians hate sikhs if this is how they are He is a bastard.
I like muslims and hindu people. But is this how Sikh people are? Are they all like Sunny Hundal are they Snobby bullying bastards.

Anonymous said...

Has anyone seen his crappy wikipedia page it reads like a piece of hero worship who is he he is no one. Who made him the left wing spokesman he is a bully and a nasty peice of work. I hate him.
I edited his crapy wikipedia page it goes on about he speaks out against extremist groups and racims, and was blogger of the year and what all round hero he is bull shit he is bullying shit. I hate his bastard guts. The guy is a shit.
I will not vist hsi craoppy blog again atleast guido fawkes tries to be polite to people when he bans them and tells them to fuck off.

I wonder about Sikhs. I met some asians when I was at uni, most were nice, but a section of them were a nasty snobs I guess they must have been sikhs.

Anonymous said...

Shumdal that is my nickname for him.

Anonymous said...

Sunny Shcumdal.

Anonymous said...

Septic Hindleg

weeell... it's that time of the afternoon when you've read and posted too much and you go a little crazy

Anonymous said...

The fact is you lot should like him He tolerates the right wing people and allows them on his blog. I think he is right wing agent. He said black people should vote tory.
His arguments for the left seem deliberately weak.
He has driven me nuts, by banning me, as it is not like being banned off right wing blogs, maybe it is though may he is a right wing agent. He is not liberal he bans people who bloody agree with him and he still banned me out of hatred thing that I don't get. It is just personal htred between the two of us. Or maybe he is just a right wing agent.
The guy is a shit. The shit sikh. Thta is why name for him.

Maybe he is a tory agent. Cos his arguments are rubbish for someone who went Brunei.
For instance.
I put an argument for windfall tax that even some right wing people agreed, with and he banned my view. I pointed out centrica had a gas field in the north sea, then sold their own gas to themslves at high market rates and then were then selling that gas on to pay for the high market rates they had charged themslves, on the justification it was a high market price. It was great argument to show how made centrica are and my post got deleted. While crappy deliberately weak points such as that Alan duncan was causing the oil prices were kept on. I wonder if the guy is right wing agent. The guy seems pretty weka and why is he posting on his blog that the right saty the pm is mad. The real reason he wants left wing people to think the PM is mad. Schudhal has already said black people should vote tory. So what the fuck is liberal about him. He is liberal conspiracy by the tories. Maybe sicks are not like this jerk. I do not trust him one bit the guy is a shit.

Anonymous said...

I hate scummy sundal.
He is a right wing bullying agent.

Anonymous said...

He is a fucking right wing agent. The reason he puts a meme that the right call the PM mad is he wants people to call the PM mad. Devious tow faced bastard. He is a snide bastard cunt. He has allready said he thinks black people should vote tory he is not liberal he is a cunt. He is fucking conspiracy. A liberal tory conspiracy I hate his fucking guts.
He is this sick Sick.

Devil's Kitchen said...

Well, thank you, DES and others. Sunny is a bit of an idiot, but let's just say that he is an idiot and not paint all brown with his brush, eh?


Anonymous said...

He will prbaly play the race card he is nasty piece of work. He is prick.

Anonymous said...

Is Dirty European Socialist a joke blogger? It is difficult to take anyone who has 'European' and 'Socialist' in their name seriously. Clearly Sunny means a lot to him (love and hate aren't opposites). And I am sure that Sikhs all over the world will be mortified to hear that DES doesn't like them anymore.

Panopticon Britain said...

Yes, he's a troll. Persistant one, too.

Anonymous said...

They will do and it all sunny's fault.

Anonymous said...

Sunny thinks love and hate are the same. Sickoe. He puts the sikc in sikh.

Anonymous said...

Chas, why not compare the increasing level of inequality between Labour rule and Tory rule, and then come back to me. I think you’ll find inequality increasing massively during Tory rule. But don’t let facts stand in your way!

I don't think we should particularly care about that comment. Economic equality is a distinctly socialist thing. Although the inequality that now exists is more a consequence of a huge welfare state and government-created market distortions than the market itself.

Lost in Devon said...

Fuck inequality. When will these fuckers get it into their heads that there are just some things that can't be fixed by taxing it or throwing money at it?

Nothing in this world is "created" equal. We are all different; different bodies, minds, aspirations, likes, dislikes, etc etc.

You want equality? You may as well lobotomise the entire population at birth. We'll all be equal then, eh? God, I fucking hate socialists.

Anonymous said...

Fuck inequality. When will these fuckers get it into their heads that there are just some things that can't be fixed by taxing it or throwing money at it?

Precisely. Inequality should be the badge of pride of a free nation.

Anonymous said...

Panopticon Britain:

"Yes, he's a troll. Persistant one, too."

But surely he must be a comic creation? No-one can be this annoying by accident.

septicisle said...


Anonymous said...

The BBC radio reports were hammering home the message that income inequality is to blame for differences in health throughout the UK:

Somehow, and I don't quite know why, if Elton John's share portfolio does well and he becomes substantially richer, this makes people in Glasgow smoke more, eat more chips and take even less exercise.

Income has fuck all to do with it. It is just another smokescreen for socialists to demand massive redistribution of income. The idea that a supertax on the rich and increased welfare payouts to the poor will reduce chronic ill-health is ludicrous and laughable.

Anonymous said...

Rumbold more like bumbold.

Bishop Brennan said...


Yes - what they don't tell you is that they use educational attainment as a proxy for income level in these 'inequality' studies.

Of course, the fact that better educated people might be more knowledgeable about what's healthy and what's not didn't *occur* to these tossers...

There is, actually, no evidence linking income inequality to health inequality. But because most of the people involved in this sector are dirty socialists (and possibly pro-EU too), they are just looking to manufacture evidence to support their demands for greater 're-distribution', given that that has been such a successful policy over the last 60 years...

Cunts, the lot of them.

Anonymous said...

Evidence of my immense comedy genius.

So there were two failed plots from blackburn to get rid of the PM.
1) One wanted to stab in the back.
2) One wanted to stab in the back and then blow is brains up.

I thought of this joke first. Spread it around it is a great joke.
I like Jack straw but I want the PM to stay but it still a good joke.

Sir Henry Morgan said...

Look Des, stop beating about the bush. Why don't you tell us what you think of Sunny Hundal?

In English.

There - that ought to keep his head in knots for a week or two and give us all a bit of peace.

Lost in Devon said...

Dirty Euro said:

"Evidence of my immense comedy genius."

Please do us a favour and don't bother to provide any more evidence.

Of course, it could be a language problem. I speak English, passable French and a little Japanese. I'm afraid I don't understand "retard", though.

Hmm. Word verification, "mngfx". Maybe this explains DES.

Anonymous said...

Since you mention Gordon Brown, I need to have a bit of a rant.

They’re at it again - The liberal paternalists are proposing to ban the display of tobacco in shops and are currently soliciting the opinion of their electorate. Banishing cigarettes will cost ordinary taxpayers more money, inconvenience thousands of consumers, and threaten the livelihoods of shopkeepers all over the UK.
I’m sick and tired of more of the same from Nanny - obsessed with dictating how people live their lives but brushing the big issues, like knife crime and recession, under the carpet. They’re planning to hide tobacco, and they are already policing alcohol, red meat, fatty foods, and salt to name a few.
I’m sick of seeing pubs closing down where I live. I’m sick of being made to feel guilty because I eat and drink as I please.
I’m sick of Nanny. How about you? Got Freedom?

Anonymous said...

Bloody hell Dirty Euro, did you by any chance go to the pub at lunchtime? If I were you I'd lay off the final 7 whiskey chasers, they've sent you into rant mode. I've got a mate who's Sikh by the way, nice chap, makes the sort of home brew that could fell a horse at 20 paces.

Roger Thornhill said...


The BBC is confusing correlation with causation, or even Post Hoc fallacy - "they are poor and then have a short life, so poverty causezittinnit?"

It might be that the bad choices/attitudes etc that shorten life are the same that entrench poverty. I know where I'd put my money. Poor people can live a long time, in fact in Japan, a low calorie diet caused by food shortages (especially red meat) increases longevity.

Powerlessness might shorten life, that makes sense - powerlessness builds deep levels of stress and lack of hope, lack of a future. What do you think the biological carbon unit would do if hope is taken away, or rather what would a body try and do if hope existed? I know what, it would want to live at any cost. Remove hope, remove the reason to live. It is pretty logical. Biggest contributor to removal of hope? (drumroll) The Welfare State, Ladies and Gentlemen.

It was worth a blog post, even.

Anonymous said...

DES - nice to see you over here posting your usual drivel. In one post you mentioned that you were at "uni". Really? Please tell me which one and what you read. Did you graduate? How did you avoid needing to read and write?

And please, please, please go back to posting on your blog. It's been a couple of months now and I did so enjoy the surreal lunacy of it all. When you do, don't forget to add a comments facility so we can all howl with derision at you.

Anonymous said...

Attila's right flank So is that code for you wank attila off. Your is right hand.
Vicola If Sunny is typical sikh then they are not people I would get on with.
Chas Not every degree is in English you dumb ladyboy.

Anonymous said...


"Rumbold more like bumbold."

Touche sir. You have beaten me.

The Nameless Libertarian said...


Is there anyone in the known world who you actually can get along with?


Anonymous said...

Yes. But not sunny hundal he is a rubbish.

Lost in Devon said...

Dirty euro:

If you weren't such an ignorant cockstain, you might understand the reference to flank; as in warfare.

If you're so fucking ignorant as to who Attila was, may I suggest that you attempt to read a book where the words are of more than one syllable, and doesn't consist mainly of pictures.

Other than that - get a life, grow up and try harder on the insults. Continuously insinuating that others are of a non-heterosexual nature is boring and won't endear you to you socialist buddies. Also, you may just say the wrong thing to the wrong person.

Anonymous said...

Poor people make choices with short-term payoffs and long-term costs, like smoking, drinking, unhealthy food, crime and debt, because they discount the future.

They discount the future because they perceive, correctly, that they have little prospect of improving their circumstances - ie they haven't got a future worth having.

They have little prospect of improving their circumstances because the criminals in Westminster have deprived them of almost every chance they ever had as an (unintended?) consequence of their 'help'.

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