Friday, January 25, 2008

What's the point?

Much seems to be being made about the fact that the EU Constitution Lisbon Treaty is being carefully debated and scrutinised in Parliament. I have a question.

What's the fucking point?

First, our elected representatives can alter not one line, one word, one letter, one comma, one iota of this document.

Second, the Labour MPs—who have a substantial majority in the House—are under a three-line whip to vote for ratification of the Treaty.

So, I ask again, what is the fucking point of wasting weeks of Parliamentary time—and hundreds of thousands of pounds of our money—on a document which cannot be altered and is guaranteed to get voted through?


Thatcher's Child said...

Because if enough people believe that discussing means debate and confirm, then history will show that the Lisbon document was agreed by the UK government and by implication, the UK public.
If you disagree, then the record of discussion imply that you had a chance to argue your case through your MP, but your side lost - stop complaining! :)

Orwellian history records are a speciality of NU Lab.

Anonymous said...

The point of the debate is to give the illusion that parliament has some say in the matter. Nothing more than that.

Old BE said...

At least forcing the MPs to read some of it might wake a few up to the horror.

Lost in Devon said...

ed: They'd have to be a legal genius to even understand it - I'm assuming they haven't looked at Open Europe's side-by-side comparison.

Anonymous said...

Ed said...
"At least forcing the MPs to read some of it might wake a few up to the horror."

Most MPs and MEPs seem remarkably dim. I don't think they will read it. From DK's video Milibrain hasn't either.

The only point for us is if:
1. the Commons rejects Lisbon
2. an amendment is added to force a referendum
3 & 4. the Lords will ditto

I am not optimistic, but these are possibilities.

Old BE said...

Can the Lords delay it for a year?

Jules Wright said...

guy fawkes where are you? [the catholic one with the beard and ye olde semtexe as opposed to the hero who jobbed Hain].

Newmania said...

DK ...the Liberal Party are going to be badly damaged by this because with them and the 20 and maybe more Labour rebels the whole edifice could crumble. They promised and they lied , they lied they lied .
Mr. Norman Baker here is going to be hearing from Conservatives like me and the (rather fantastic )UKIP PPC and from his own Party in meetings and in the Press. It is toxic for him elect orally . My letter this week will be , with luck, asking why , now Clegg props up Brown and is doing a deal on PR with Brown we bother with the cunting Oily rag when we might as well speak to the cunting Engineer ( I may tidy the delivery a tad). A party whose rhetoric is based on protest and empowerment is going to find it pretty hard to sit there and have shit pies thrown at its traitorous defenceless face for two months and that is what they are going to get and should be getting from you and everyone else !
If enough people got off their fat fucking arses and told their MP how much they are going to pay , especially Liberals , then this time could be a turning point .I have been distributing a leaflet telling my fellow Englishmen and women that this is our country not theirs and we do not simply tit around with the cycle paths like children we decide what we want our country to be .Aunty Flo is involved with a cross Party protest in Harlow ( By the way would you please give her my email address if she asks by email ….please)
You have to embarrass your MP because this is the last time you will get a chance the Liberals will grab PR and force Europe through . That will be the end of democracy in the sense that the man betraying you has to stand in front of you and face you and in any case he will be in Brussels for his porcine retirement
I already see a seething atmosphere . When was the last time Question time audience attacked Liberal and Labour MPs as liars on a right wing issue ? I saw that last night. Everyman will be philosopher and a politician and they will run like little girls when they get a sense of the headwind
Do not get bogged down in what happens next the fight is now and it is simply to ascertain whose country this is , the peoples or the lying fucking executive . We must have a referendum we must not have PR in Euriope which will be the end of the country.
So the point is what it always is when the executive betray the voter it is time to take action outside Parliament peacefully or otherwise . Write letters , arrange meeting s, lobby the MP let him know his precious job is not worth shit as a traitor .

This ‘Devil ‘ could be your finest finest hour.

Norman Baker this could be the time when you lose your job . Think carefully .

Anonymous said...

Newmania - You are simply wonderful.

Anonymous said...


Obviously one has a following, being of a political nature perhaps you might consider going one step further.

It occurs to me after reading Guido on lobbyists that I would happily help to employ you on that basis.

I for one would start a standing order. £10/month * how many others?

Liberty like everything else doesn't come free, ask my grandfather who went on a summer holiday with the TA in 1914 and didn't get home for another five years.

Anonymous said...

I am convinced the EU is communist/fascist, is there any difference? Everything they do seems to have one of two aims, more power, more budget(taxes).

I just worked on a directive requiring companies to report certain business to their national regulator, each country has a different system. If you as a company operate Europe wide you would have to develop a different system for each country at great expense.

In the directive it talks about mitigating these costs, it talks about home and host reporting and accepting that for companies to have to report to many different regulators would be burdensome.

It also states that the regulators must share all their reports with all the other regulators, therefore it should make no difference who you report to.

One would think, wouldn't one? That these comnpanies would be allowed to report to a single regulator using the same system in each location to report to their 'Home' regulator.

Fat chance. We may even have to implement a system in each branch reporting to the host regulator PLUS the system reporting to the home regulator.

We also have to pay (tax) for each transaction we report.


Greg said...

It's totally undemocratic. The upper house have executive power and the lower house are unaccountable to their electorate.

Shug Niggurath said...

Milli(tant) said last week something along the lines of The job of Parliament is to debate the treaty and then ratify it.

So that's how it works, and don't anyone dare go against that sentiment.

Newmania said...

I must say how very much I agree with Verity :)

Anonymous said...

It helps sort out those bastards who will swing from lamp posts and those bastards who will be just slapped around a little.

For those who are a little confusiated, all politicians are bastards, it is just a question of degree.

Unsworth said...

@ Docbud

I had rather hoped that they would each be slapped around a little - and then suspended from the street furniture.

Ar you now telling us it's an 'either or"? This is not justice...


I have just recieved a reply from "my" MP, on the question of a referendum,after wading through the bullshit,there is this,"I assure you that david cameron and the conservatives will continue to campaign and fight for the referendum the British people were promised and deserve"
Personally i have not heard d cameron make any such pledge,hague came close and ran away,and as for the rest of them,sorry nothing that we can do,so we might as well get our snouts in the euro-trough too,thats "democracy" folks!

Mark Wadsworth said...

What V says, what all of you say, really ...

Anonymous said...

For anyone wishing to build multiple gallows for the political scumbags voting for the treaty, a nice job lot of free timber has washed up along the south coast.

All you need now is the rope and an angry mob. Oh yes, and to implement the Gallows Safety directive EU 516/4/7/V. (Mind the step, it's a doozy)

Anonymous said...

Reminds me of the parliamentary "debate" over going into Iraq. We do have not have a real parliamentary democracy, just a rotating dictatorship.

Anonymous said...

Why don't the Conservatives, and others opposing, sit outside parliament for one day as a protest. It would highlight the issue much better than arguing inside.

Of course, the police would arrest them for demonstrating outside parliament, but that would be a bonus :)

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