Tuesday, November 13, 2007

All men are rapists...

... didn't you know? And because all men are rapists, we should obviously change the presumptions on which our criminal justice system works so that we can ensure that they are all convicted. At least, that seems to be the attitude of far too many people.
There are false allegations and a defendant is entitled to a fair trial. But a fair trial is one in which the rights of the victim - or society - are balanced against the rights of the defendant. A criminal justice system in which it is all but impossible to convict in one area of law is surely not a fair justice system.

The justice system is there to administer the law. The law recognises that all are innocent until proven guilty and that every person has a right to a fair trial in front of an impartial jury. That is all.
In many cases, judgment comes down to one person's word against another, and of course it is difficult to convict on that basis.

Yes, it is. And unfortunately, that is why rape convictions are so low. This has been coupled with a broadening of the law which, for instance, now recognises rape within marriage (almost impossible to prove).

All of this is deeply unfortunate, but that does not justify changing the justice system; especially when you get fucking stupid ideas like this.
One solution would be for specialist jurors to be brought in to try rape cases - people who won't assume that rape only happens between strangers.

Timmy explains why this is a cock idea.
No, no, no!

For who would actually become these specialists? Sadly, only those with an axe to grind on one side or another of the argument. It would, by definition, no longer be an impartial jury.



Roger Thornhill said...

Yes, DK, absolutely spot on.

The Law is not about balancing the needs, but deciding if there is guilt beyond reasonable doubt. One person's word vs another IS reasonable doubt and a cornerstone of English Common Law, IIRC.

Specialist jurors will become a poison. It will become trial by committee, it will mutate into an inquisitional system, much as we see in France and in Islamic law - the jurors, I suspect, will rapidly become Police, Judge and Jury.

But then again this is what many vindictive self-loathers want to see across the entire socio-political system.

Katy Newton said...

Why do you have to be a specialist to know that rape doesn't just happen between strangers?

Don't you just have to have, I don't know, a brain?

Maybe a bit of common sense?

the A&E Charge Nurse said...

Instead of "all men are rapists" - how about "UK, rapists paradise" ?

Roger Thornhill said...

Exactly, Katy. Most rapes are not by strangers, IIRC.

A&E, another classic false dichotomy from you.

Anonymous said...

Ther is actually a solution to this problem. Its called zero tolerance.

How difficult is it to convict scum of normal violence (against men as well as women). As the average rapist has to be someone with violent tendencies, locking up violent scum would stop huge numbers of women from sexual assaults of all kinds.

It would have lots of other benefits as well, but thats another story.


Anonymous said...

Yes. The presumption of innocence, especially in rape cases must be adhered to.

Look at how many so called rapes have just turned out to be false accusations lately.

Duke lacrosse rape hoax

Cristiano Ronaldo

Michael Flatley

Warren Blackwell

Aftab Ahmed

As far as I know there has only been *one* scholarly study EVER into how many rape convictions are false. It was conducted by Eugene Kanin over a nine year period and found that 41% of the rape accusations were false by admission of the accusers themselves. The false allegations appear to serve three major functions for the complainants: providing an alibi, seeking revenge, and obtaining sympathy and attention.

A PDF summary of his findings is here.

Anonymous said...

Re false allegations. Simple really. You dont have the defendants name allowed out and into the papers. Rapist who slashed a womans back 6 times, known mysoginist, gets less than 2 years. What with cross examination techniques who would want to go through court for that achievement?

"right to a fair trial in front of an impartial jury"

What impartial jury? Rape is based on social situations in which people are already biased. Look at your post for a start. Wont happen unless jury attitudes are no longer biased.

Two girls have committed suicide now because the system sucks. Tonnes (incl me) dont get our cases to courts because the system is badly screwed and we end up with no justice at all and get to hear men bleat on about 'how many rape cases are false'. A handful, thats it. And so far so prosecuted for the women who do this.

One day you might actually tackle the issue without this shoulder shrug. I love this blog and mostly love your posts but this pre disposition to do and say fuck all about this issue other than pretend it will go away is exactly why it will always end up as a feminist issue. I end up fighting from a corner i would rather not.

Rape does not go through our criminal system properly. The criminal justice system is fundamentally unsuited to dealing with rape - and yet it must be handled in the criminal justice system. So?

"UK, rapists paradise" ?

If you arent joking - you are actually spot on.

Machiavelli's Understudy said...


What exactly are you proposing?

Anonymous said...

adm - take a look at the "Rape and Cameron" thread, I'll leave it to you to decide if I'm joking.

johnny nunsuch said...

How does "All women are harlots" go down with woman because as a man I find the comment "All men are rapists " deeply offensive

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