Thursday, September 13, 2007

Libertarian looking for a voice

A little while ago I wrote about the seeming pointlessness of attempting to set up a true Libertarian Party. This was partially a response to the number of emails that I had received pledging support if only I were to set up such a party.

I do not have the time, energy or organisational skills to set up such a party and, as a UKIP member, I thought that I was a supporter of the nearest that we would get to a libertarian party. nfortunately, the Nation of Shopkeepers' analysis of UKIP is spot on.
Of all of the minor parties, with the exception of UKIP, none are proposing a libertarian society. UKIP is to some extent, but they are hampered by a large portion of their membership really being disgruntled, authoritarian ex-conservatives, and this will always present them with a ‘wing’ of the party that will resist true libertarian ideals.

In fact, you can view some of the poisonous little turds attempting to bring their own brand of social authoritarianism to UKIP's agenda (by attempting to topple the democratically-elected, libertarian leader) on this site (at least one of those people was feeding information to the papers during the bad patch earlier this year).

However, Harry Haddock has pointed me towards this post at Looking For A Voice.
To call for an English Libertarian Party is a contradiction in terms, the English value personal Liberty and to be left alone, therefore having to consider joining a party to preserve a way of life is an extreme move. However the adherances of the State will provide have taken over all three major parties, all promising to spend our money in different State led projects. Not one of the Parties trusts the people.

We now have the largest exodus of native population in our recent History, the State does not care when it can import more workers from elsewhere who will be more willing to accept the State without Question.

It will take years, but every long journey starts with a few steps, if you feel that you must draw a line in the sand please contact me through this blog, twenty plus people already have. To do nothing is no longer an option.

I have contacted Guthrum and offered my services, should a Libertarian Party come about. Will you?

UPDATE: whatever the outcome here, I shall, I think, enter the Libertarian Alliance's Chris R Tame Memorial Prize Essay (no direct link), the title of which is to be Does Britain Need A Libertarian Party?


MatGB said...

Ye gods that grassroots site is ugly. I mean, really really ugly. So ugly it sort of looks vaguely good until you notice how foul it really is.

But hey, if they want to have the ugliest site in the world for the crappiest campaign in the world. If how you describe them is correct (and I've no reason to doubt you) then they are to me what Polly is to you, the utter opposite, with nothing in common. And that frameset is a whole new level of fail as well.

I remain convinced that the electoral system need fixing first, because you can't get a breakthrough without any real effort, and we need to deal with NuLab now, not in the twenty years or so it takes to build a movement up to electability.

The only other option is for the Tories to split down the middle, and for the sane(ish) anti authoritarian liberals and libertarians to set up a new party. Then we could see some movement faster.

The Nameless One said...

For a proper (yes, that is deeply subjective judgement but I stand by it) Libertarian Party: Yes.

Jackart said...

You know my view I'm afraid. Join the tories, work your way up, then ambush them from the top.

Besides, there'd be too many republicans in a liertarian party...

Jackart said...

oh, and Is Libertarian UK up again yet?

Anonymous said...

Get a grip guys! UKIP is that party! Yes, there is a tiny minority who seem to be hell bent on the destruction of UKIP for their own agenda. Whether they be moles from other parties, MI5 operatives, vain egotists or armchair whingers with nothing better to do than dissect the latest rumour we will not give up. Like the energiser bunny we just keep going, but we could get there a lot faster with a tad more support and less energy sapping sidetracking. Despite this UKIP do give a lot of bang for very little buck so bear with us cause it's not that easy believe me!

Devil's Kitchen said...

LibUK should be up and running again over the weekend.


Devil's Kitchen said...


Yes, I agree with you: that is why I have renewed my membership and why I continue to work with them (although I tend to be behind the scenes and not ostentatiously).

Plus, I don't really know if a Libertarian Party will really take off.

Jackart: yes, I am aware of your views, of course. Unfortunately, I do not think that that will be any faster.

Actually, I am happy for you to pursue the goal your way: I'll continue to work for a party that can take votes off the Tories and force them my way through being able to damage them.

It's a pincer movement, old chap. We'll take votes from the Tories and you can point out that we're taking votes from your party because we're libertarians.

Fiendishly cunning, no?


Mark Wadsworth said...

The main 'wings' in UKIP are
1) Disgruntled authoritarian ex-Tories (who nonetheless make a few good points, and are certainly right-on as regards economic liberalism).
2) Rabid free-market small-government libertarians (who know what they are talking about).

I belong to the latter category.

Following Jackart's analogy, I'd rather take on a small party and have a small chance of winning than take on the oldest most muddled party in England and fail miserably.

Mark Wadsworth said...

In fact, you know what, fuck it.

UKIP have about five main policies so far
- get out of the EU
- controlled immigration
- flat tax/benefits
- more local democracy and accountability
- vouchers for schools

They are bringing out more policies this Autumn (and Yours Truly has a hand in some of them) as long as the good outweighs the bad, I shall cheerfully renew my membership.

Wrinkled Weasel said...

This is going to sound a bit sweeping, but I don't see much happening in terms of a significant move to Libertarianism. The reason is that I believe we are entering an era of regression; into fear, safety and homogenization. Imaginative thinking, indeed an intellectual approach to politics is a non-starter right now, and will be for the foreseeable.

The last libertarian phase was the 1960's - it was subverted and ultimately failed. It failed because too many people got rich and satisfied and the gurus of the period are now candied curiosities; even, an enigma to people of today's political climate which is predominantly one of presentation over principle and a particularly repellent kind of relativism.

The hallmarks of this regression into mediocrity and safety are all there - an increasingly fragile economic structure, ghettoization of minorities, scapegoating of certain groups, authoritarian laws appearing almost every day, dumbing down of the media, etc.

While the politicians are throwing red herrings about over climate change and responsibility for the environment, we have allowed Great Britain to become a leaky vessel in cultural terms. I think your contributors have hinted at this. It is awash with belief in nothingism. Radicalism smacks too much of conviction, which is currently so unfashionable.

We are being lied to. We are being lied to about our liberty. When, for example, we are told that ID cards will help us protect our liberty it is a lie.

But it's more pervasive than that and more candy-coated.

Simone Weil, who among other things was an anarcho-syndicalist and who was the originator of the "cuckoo clock" speech in The "Third Man" said,

"Oppression that is clearly inexorable and invincible does not give rise to revolt but to submission"

And there lies the problem. The people are loved up, smoozed, lied to and allowed to be passionate about a few arbitrary causes, whilst at the same time, even the language of their inner thoughts is being censored by society.

In their thinking, they are as free as they want to be, and a move to the setting up of a Libertarian party will not be met with vociferous opposition, but, merely, puzzlement.

Machiavelli's Understudy said...

I think some people are looking for an 'all or nothing', absolutist solution to meet their political needs.

We have to be realistic and recognise the constraints of the system of democracy and government that we operate within.

In a PR-based system, my political support might be placed elsewhere, but there might also be a different political landscape on which to park my tank. For instance, I'm not so certain that the Conservative Party in its current form would have a future- I suspect a split, that would undoubtedly go towards our favour ('our' being those with a liberal and/ or libertarian outlook).

Unfortunately however, we live with the FPTP system. Depending on your views on working with FPTP, you might think that it can be used to your advantage, to effect change through the threat of third-party candidacy, or you might see it as a system where the outcome is supporting the least worst option. I'm of the opinion that FPTP produces the latter.

With this in mind, I personally cannot support UKIP, given that support for them further enables Labour to win.

Yes, I know, I can hear it now- "they're all the fucking same, so what difference does it make who you vote for?".

This is where I have an issue with how our government is formed. All too often, the local candidate, where they are not a personality, is ignored in favour of 'the party' and/ or 'the leader'. Voters vote for or against a local candidate on the strength of their party's leader. This is a shame, because I know that there are some excellent Parliamentary candidates out there on the Conservative platform. I would much rather see the opportunity to elect a PM separately, as the US elects its presidents and Congress separately. Israel elected its PMs in the 1990s, although admittedly the system failed and was withdrawn.

Therefore, with the belief that splitting the Conservative/conservative-inclined vote isn't a welcome prospect for me, I think that working within the existing framework of the Conservative Party is the way forward. I've mentioned previously how it would be relatively easy to launch a liberal or libertarian-sympathetic agenda within the Party. I can imagine that the numbers for support are more than might be imagined, particularly given the strength of the Conservative student movement in the 1980s and how they won in the power struggle against other factions at the time.

This isn't about launching a reactionary agenda with immediate hopes of impact- we won't have a place at the table with such false hopes.

It ought to be about putting in place the people and resources to cement our ideas, grow them and implement them.

Roger Thornhill said...

I do think the current failures, tightening grip and moral, fiscal and intellectual bankruptcy of the Socio-fascist model that holds sway in Europe and the UK right now will come to a head and soon. The Unions are already spoiling for a fight. The economy is on the wobble. The exposure of the lie that is The Green Religion of Unthought will also play a part and could well be the biodegradable straw that breaks the organically farmed camel's back. Huge numbers of people will have been lied to. Huge numbers would then be aware, slapped around the face aware, in front of their neighbours and friends aware, that they have been made utter utter fools of, found lying face down on the bed with a daffodil up their jacksie, as it were.

Authoritarianism, taxes and the State will be the culprit.

My views do not rely on this convulsion happening at all, but unless a Libertarian Party is formed, people cannot join it! People do need a focus. People do cleave to a winner.

The issue is about articulating the arguments for Libertarianism correctly and smashing the perverted and disingenuous framing that the Socio-fascists use to hoodwink and hypnotise the nation. The argument needs to be systematic and robust, so the MSM cannot pick it apart or focus on isolated policy issues to shock and intimidate the population.

PR will be a disaster, btw.

You can take that as a "Yes, count me in"!

Anonymous said...

UKIP libertarian?? my arse!

UKIP are a bunch of nationalist-socialists who should naf off.

Wrinkled Weasel said...

I am spooked.. I nearly wrote a very similar piece to Machiavelli - he is promulgating a sensible and pragmatic way forward. And I too think that the electoral system works against us and produces "the least worst option". I have to admit, as an SNP voter, that my vote was as much a "none of the above" vote as anything else. My SNP sympathies arise out of the party's general "fuck off" attitude, rather than what they might or will do.

Let's not underestimate the role of the media. If you believe them, both the SBP and UKIP are loonies without a hope of becoming a significant force. The Labour party actually sent up a delegation to the BBC in Scotland, just before the last election, to lean on them. Of course, ultimately it didn't work, but neverthless, the dead tree press is anti SNP, the BBC is anti SNP and as far as I can see, anti UKIP.

Machiavelli says that under PR the Tories may not survive..I go further and say that they are currently iploding with the force of a Vindaloo fart.

Finally, Roger Thornhill appears to agree with me..

"Huge numbers would then be aware, slapped around the face aware, in front of their neighbours and friends aware, that they have been made utter utter fools of, found lying face down on the bed with a daffodil up their jacksie, as it were."

I would join a Libertarian party, because I have always been one...I mean since the late 1960's..and I await the opportunity to place my vote where I really believe I should.


The Green Party had to make a start somewhere and look what happened; their influence goes far beyond their democratic mandate. I don't know if there are realistic paralells to be drawn between the emergence of the Greens and a Libertarian party, but its food for thought, eh?

Matthew Sinclair said...

Perhaps you should all consider whether another party is what the libertarian movement needs?

All the parties can really do is try to form electoral majorities with public opinion as they find it. The real work of politics is changing minds and persuading people of your views, and that people should prioritise the issues you prioritise. That's best done by non-party groups.

Anonymous said...

Looking at the comments above herding cats springs to mind.....

Mac said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mac said...

I wish I could, reading the linked article reminded me of walking into a pub in the back of beyond, after breaking down on a storm-lashed moor to find it full of old friends. Sad to say, the stench of republicanism lay heavy, like the emissions of the scabby dog by the fireplace. Can't make common cause with 'em, just can't.

Sod it. Looks like UKIP then...

Oh yeah? So what has happened for the last ten years, exactly?

Over at the ASI, they are posting some of the winning entries of the Young Writers on Liberty. One does not want to put such keen minds off,...