Saturday, June 30, 2007

This is just getting silly

Now, look, I'm a reasonable sort of chap but, what with the car bombs in London, and now this, the whole thing is getting pretty fucking silly.
A car on fire has been driven at the main terminal building at Glasgow Airport, police have confirmed.

Eyewitnesses have described a Jeep Cherokee being driven at speed towards the building with flames coming out from underneath.

They have also described seeing two Asian men, one of whom was on fire, who had been in the car.

Strathclyde Police said two people had been arrested and detained in connection with the incident.

The airport has been evacuated and all flights suspended following the incident at 1515 BST.

Now, it is all very well for The Register to talk about Beavis and Butthead bombings, but just because these arseholes haven't been able to make a competent bomb does not mean that they neither desired to nor could not actually do so with a bit more thought.

Besides, whilst a burning jeep might not do the damage of a proper explosive device, it's still going to smart a little if it runs into you. Or your family.
Thomas Conroy, a maintenance worker at the airport believes the men deliberately tried to set the car on fire.

"It looked like they had molotov cocktails with them," he said.

"They sort of burst them round about the flames to make sure the car would go up big style.

"Within minutes it was up and the terminal caught as well."

Now, the Beeb is, probably responsibly in the absence of certainty, calling the perpetrators "Asian men" but would anyone like to bet against the supposition that they are also Muslims?

Now, I would like to make it clear that I believe that the vast majority of Muslims are quite happily going about their lives, disapproving of Western life-styles and oppressing their women in time-honoured, peaceful tradition. But some of these fuckers are trying to take the lives of others, and there really isn't any excuse for it.

I'm fed to the back teeth with these Islamist nutjobs trying to tell me how to live my life; I'm fed up with the evil little fuckers taking offence all the time, and I've certainly majorly pissed off that they keep trying to kill innnocent people who are just going about their daily lives.

But, naturally, we want to avoid overly repressive laws. So, here's an idea or two: first, any bastard found guilty of attempting to perpetrate a terrorist act is sentenced to spend the rest of their lives in prison, with no possibility of parole. Anyone found to have encouraged, aided or in any way incited these fuckers is also put on trial for being an accessory to mass murder and sentenced to a maximum of life imprisonment.

Second, we say "up yours" to the EU and bring in stringent border controls for everyone, EU citizens included.

Third, we must stop pandering to these people. We don't mind you living in our country, we are happy to welcome all those who come here to live lives of decency and peace. But, by god, if you try to fuck us over then there will be no mercy.

Fourth, we issue due warning that we will immediately cut diplomatic ties with any government found to have helped organise or fund these attacks.

Or, of course, we could just ignore it in our usual great British way and just wait for the next bunch of murdering bastards to get it right.

UPDATE: Strange Stuff has an interesting post on motivation.
In a way this is comforting, that your average Islamic terrorist is so incompetent. On the other hand it is worrying, because these latest attacks have been so very badly planned they cannot be part of an organised campaign.

I can therefore only assume that the jealousy of the west is now so widespread within the Islamic colonies inside the UK that we are going to see more of this. There can be no negotiation as there is no central authority to negotiate with. It will simply be that every so often some Muslims will finally get off of their fat lazy arses in order to try and kill the people that pay for their dole money.

And, as I say, at some point they may well get someone with a small level of chemical knowledge and more innocent people will die.

Seriously, how fucking twisted do these fuckers have to be? Oh, no, hang on: over to The Register again.
This should have been dismissed for what it is: an event on the level of some teenagers getting a tremendously foolish notion, and being drunk enough for it to appeal to them.

Yes, that is, of course, precisely what this is like.


The Remittance Man said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Potens said...

Joshua, can I have some of the shit you've been smoking?

The Remittance Man said...

I don't think I or the guys at the Register were belittling the potential effect nutters can have, simply the know-nothing hyperbole being used by the MSM to decribe the potential damage of the London incidents.

And actually the Glasow event seems to prove the case. Yes, these buggers can cause damage and potentially they could kill or maim people, but nothing like on the scale being suggested.

From what I can see on the news, aside from the material damage, the only guy injured was an own goal.

My own fear is that a bad, but not catastrophic, incident will be used to justify God along knows what "measures" to "combat this menace". The authoritarians use people's fear and that fear is being stoked by hyperbole and yellow journalism just when rational thought is needed.

The new Home Sec, Jacqui Smith, is already rolling out the old "worst threat ever" line.

Devil's Kitchen said...


I share your fears, believe me. Which is why those things that I have suggested mainly focus on really, really fucking over those found guilty rather than clamping down on the innocent.


Roger Thornhill said...

Just because Zippy and Bungle messed it up means nothing. The cowards who designed this do not risk their own lives - they sit behind the scenes and risk the lives of others and endanger the lives of many more.

They will learn, adapt and try again.

We need to be out of the EU and we need to have the ability to expell foreign nationals who are undesirables, regardless. It is bad, but it is the least-worst option we have.

The Remittance Man said...

How about giving them to Sheriff Joe Arpaio over in Maricopa County, Arizona? He seems a fairly uncompromising type chap.

Fidothedog said...

Well said remittance man, maybe we can also send the 25,000 that are being let out early as well.

the A&E Charge Nurse said...

Devil - if jail [and Mr McKay] could not persuade Norman Stanley Fletcher to mend his thieving ways it sure as hell won't deter the sort of fanatics who are willing to crash aeroplanes into tall buildings.

No, the seeds are already sown I'm afraid - and although remittance man may be able to shed some light on technicalities and methodology, surely its only a matter of time before the fundamentalists hit the target again.

The Remittance Man said...

jail [and Mr McKay] may not work. Deportation might. But in extremis perhaps Harry "Breaker" Morant had the right idea:

"Rule three oh three, sir. Rule three oh three".

Nosemonkey said...


a) The Schengen Agreement providing for passport-free travel is nothing to do with the EU

b) The UK is not a signatory


c) any influx of foreign types - Islamist terrorists or otherwise - is entirely thanks to the British government's inability to police this country's 10,000 miles of coastline, and nothing to do with the EU.

(Just to be pedantic... xxx)

In other news - we should be happy at this new development: it appears that terrorists are shit and useless. This isn't a time to get scared of the buggers, it's time to take the piss. They're crap - really, really crap.

Devil's Kitchen said...


Yes, they have been crap so far; and next time? Anyway, not really scared, just irritated: they offend me.

Just enquiring here, but is it just my imagination or is it the case that any EU citizen is allowed to settle here regardless?


Roger Thornhill said...

nosemonkey, the issue is about EU citizens per se, immigration and asylum policy, not Schengen.

The EU is pushing for a pan-EU policy and to distribute illegals and asylum seekers around the nations.

In regard to the inflow of EU citizens, the UK is not really in a position to prevent it and as such is also vulnerable to the leakiest country in regard to granting citizenship. Showing a passport is really neither here nor there, as the bureaucrats have out-maneuvered that means of control - totally on purpose, mind.

Nosemonkey said...

DK - Remind me to get back to you on that one. It's not as simple as they're all allowed residency without exception, but can't recall the precise details.

Once here they can certainly vote in local / EU elections (though not general elections, if I recall) - but considering they have to pay taxes in this country that only seems fair (my missus, despite paying taxes, has no say in how they're spent thanks to not being a UK/EU citizen, which strikes me as off...)

Either way, the 10,000 miles of coastline makes border security pretty much impossible.

And yes, next time they may do worse - but I believe in taking the piss when they cock up, and diminishing the status of the terrorist bogeyman. Terrorists exist to spread terror - make them a figure of fun, they fail, even if the occasional success does manage to kill a few score people and freak us out for a bit.

Callous, perhaps, but it'd make everyone's lives far less stressful on a daily basis - not least because the chances of another 9/11 are minuscule, yet we seem to be in constant dread of a repeat performance.

chris said...

We should also remember the problem here isn't with the new colonists themselves. It is the second or third generation colonists that tend to want to die in order to turn the UK into some Sharia ruled paradise. The new arrivals having just come from a Sharia ruled paradise are rather less eager for it. A better solution than stopping the flow of new colonists would be to get them to act like immigrants and integrate with the rest of society, rather than paying them to sit around in their colonies watching repeats of old Arnie movies on Sky. Preferably before one of the assholes end up channel surfing to an Open University programme where they might learn how to make a bomb that works. The standard issue beard and sandals of an OU presenter would make them feel right at home so there is a chance that one might hang around long enough for the damage to be done, before getting bored and going back to Arnie.

Nosemonkey: since the EU commission claims to have control over UK immigration policy why shouldn't we take them at their word?

the A&E Charge Nurse said...

the remittance man - if I remember correctly Harry 'Breaker' Morant who led the Bushveldt Carbineers was executed by his own side for dispensing summary justice, or executing rule 303 - 'we caught them, and we shot them'.

The Remittance Man said...

Actually he was shot for obeying a secret order from Kitchener to the "irregular" anti-commando units, like the BVC, to shoot Boers they caught wearing British uniform.

The war was nearly over and the Brits (yes, us) didn't want to piss the Boers off enough to leave the peace negotiations. So when the effects of the order started to become more widely known the Army decided to deny everything and make an example of someone. Morant as a colonial seemed the perfect scapegoat.

It wouldn't be the last time the top brass and the politicians chopped a good soldier in the name of expediency.

As an aside, the BVC operated in the neighbourhood where I currently live. Let's say the name Morant is known, but not always liked in this neck of the woods.

In certain circumstances, Rule Three Oh Three can still prove very effective, however.

Nosemonkey said...

Chris - cutting through the inevitable anti-EU spin in a Telegraph article (even though Rennie was rather good, as a rule), all that is actually claimed there is that there is an accepted UN and EU definition of "asylum seeker".

This definition - and the obligations that EU member states have to asylum seekers and refugees - stems from the Geneva Convention, which pre-dates the formation of the European Community by some six years.

All that the Commission spokesman was pointing out was that there are existing international obligations - not that Brussels has control over Britain's asylum policy.

(I hope it's not necessary to point out the distinction between asylum seekers / refugees and regular immigrants? You do appear to conflate the two in a worryingly Daily Mail style...)

the A&E Charge Nurse said...

Devil - it will not have escaped the attenton of your regular commentators that a man with severe burns is receiving medical attention from NHS staff, probably intensivists given the nature of the injuries.

Now, I seem to recall that you and one or two others were less than impressed when Pressa succumbed to pneumonia, a condition made all the worse by his diabetes, and required brief tenure in a HD bed.

If the injured man is a 'perp', as seems very likely, do you think the NHS should treat him the same way as any other punter with an occupational injury ?

Mark Wadsworth said...

DK, agreed, especially "But, by god, if you try to fuck us over then there will be no mercy" which is the second rule of warfare in a nutshell.

laurence said...

"hyperbole being used by the MSM to decribe the potential damage of the London incidents."

Remittance Man - do you really think that a large number of gas canisters bursting into 100's of sharp fragments plus 1000's of nails, all propelled by a massive explosive charge in the middle of a crowded street would do relatively little damage? The London bombs would have killed and maimed 100's of people, and they were only stopped by luck.
DK - I couldn't agree more with your post. Of course we need to take draconian action to restrain these nutters and require some degree of loyalty and conformity with the values of our society from their many supporters in the Muslim ghettoes - sorry, 'communities'.
But sadly it's not going to happen, because we are ruled by people who minds are so rotted by 'pc' garbage that they would rather be blown up than upset a Muslim and who hate their own history and culture (what little they know of it) so much that they are positively grateful when it is insulted and scorned by arrogant medieval-minded bigots with their own separatist outlook. It will only need 'moderate' Muslim leaders like Lord Ahmad or the self-appointed Muslim Council of GB to breathe a word of self-pitying criticism and our ruling elite and media will be back licking the boot that is kicking them (and us) in the face.
Sorry about the vehemence, but I am MAJORLY pissed-off with this whole situation and the gutlessness of our reaction to it.
Mr. Hughes

The Remittance Man said...

Mr Hughes,

With the greatest respect please go and read my previous comments and the post on my own blog as to why I think the London efforts were unlikely to cause major devastation.

It'll also give you some background as to why I think I am qualified to make such an assertion. But if you can't be bothered, I'll give you the abridged version - 18 years experience working with explosives, two government licences, two engineering degrees (both with at least some explosives related content) and a couple of specialist qualifications in explosives technology.

Of course it is only my opinion. If someone can provide me with technical evidence tthat says otherwise I might be willing to change my opinion - that's what engineers (even opinionated ones) do.

Depending on what was actually in the green Cherokee Jeep the Glasgow effort could be considered a practical demonstration of the lack of effectiveness of this method.

Chris said...

Hmmm, anyone else reckon these two "terrorist acts" are mightily convenient for Gordo, who happened to make a point of re-instating the 90-day questioning of suspects prior to his "election".

Or am I too much of a conspiracy nut-job?

guido faux said...

This attack shows Al'Qaeda's strength and weakness. It is is now decentralised to the extent where it is mostly a mosque and internet-based propaganda machine espousing an extremist ideology. Post 9-11 and Taliban overthrow there is often no chain of command from the leadership to suicide bomber.

This means little possibility for betrayal of Bin Laden/Al Zawahiri's hiding place but it also means they cannot select the 'best candidates' for attacks.

In the end that may be a risk they are willing to take. Mass casualties are a secondary consideration. Their (stated) aim is to drain the West of blood and treasure by goading us into a series of unwinnable wars. It is also useful to goad governments into introducing harsh laws for domestic surveillance and control. For that you don't actually need to inflict a high casualty attack every time - only credibly threaten to do so.

laurence said...

OK, Mr. Remittance Man - I had a look at what you said on your blog. Firstly, I had understood that there was an explosive charge in the cars, as well as gas canisters, nails and petrol. But even if there wasn't, surely gas cylinders exploding make very effective shrapnel bombs, not to mention the nails? These guys may have been amateurs, but it still seems to me that what they did could have caused large-scale maiming and loss of life. I note what you say about the 'difficulty' of setting off gas cylinders, but I am not convinced; if they were really so very safe I don't think I would have to go through such stringent and regular safety certificate checks for the one medium-sized gas cylinder I have on my narrowboat. Anyway, let's hope we don't have to find out soon from experience what would really happen if one of these 'amateur' car-bombs went off.
Mr. Hughes

The Remittance Man said...

Mr Hughes,

From my irresponsible youth, I can say the small cans generally split rather than fragment. The bang was sufficient to satisfy nascent juvenile delinquents but, with hindsight, not exactly weapons grade.

The larger bottles have safety valves designed to release gas before they blow up. This is probably what gets checked during your periodic certification audits. If your canal boat should ever catch fire (which I hope never happens) there would probably be a rather intense, gas fuelled fire, but no death dealing explosion.

Then again, as Mr Faux says, the buggers don't actually need to cause mass death and distruction if the alarmists and authoritarians get their way. And the only defence against that is rational evaluation coupled with sensible vigilance. And maybe, ruthless piss taking when the muppets cock up.

monoi said...

DK, it seems to me that in the last few weeks you have descended even further in your anti EU hatred so that nowadays, even if there are no links at all, you will blame everything on it. By all means, criticize the EU but try and get a sense of perspective.

Border controls exist in this country, and to say that they do not is just plain wrong. It is just that home grown terrorists do not need to be stopped at the border.

JuliaM said...

"Or am I too much of a conspiracy nut-job?"

Not if you are asking that question, no.

The real conspiracy nutjobs have a total lack of self-awareness & it would never occur to them that what they were saying was anything other than totally logical and reasonable.

Even when the people they are talking to are howling in hysterical guffaws, doubling over holding their stomachs, weeping tears of mirth.

The true conspiracy nutjob never thinks to himself: "Hmm, maybe I'm on the wrong track if that's the reaction...."

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