Tuesday, May 01, 2007

Defending MI5

They should have done this! Or that! Or the next thing!
No, they shouldn't have. In the case of yesterday's traitors, they did what they could with the resources they had available to them.
And a damn fine job they did as well.
In a society that believes healthcare comes out of nowhere but has to be free at the point of use; that believes it's morally acceptable for women who've aborted their own children to be supported in their old age by the children of others; that consistently places the un-natural on a par with the natural (a society where 16 year olds can leave school without qualifications and no intention to work and then be given money screwed from the pockets of others cannot last - it is ahistoric, meaning it has no place in history); perhaps those people who have to work to a budget could always do better.
But on the other hand MI5 is not permitted to rattle collecting tins outside Brent Cross, so for the most part they have to make what I'm sure are sometimes split second decisions about where, when and how the resources they have to work with should be allocated to achieve the best possible result. In such circumstances they become pure economists, constantly evaluating how the resources they have can be allocated most efficiently.
You can have a National Health Service or real security, but you can't have both. You can have a welfare state or real security, but you can't have both. You can have a bloated aid budget or real security - but you can't have both.
And anyone who says you can, or who seeks to second guess the work the security services do, is unworthy of consideration.
Good work, folks. Keep it up.


Anonymous said...

Here fucking here. Had to switch newsnight off last night, with their 'who's to blame' wankfest, because the TV was about to fly through the window.

The only people they didn't try to blame were the killers themselves.

Roger Thornhill said...

And another here! here! from me.

Far too soon to judge.

Newsnight is yet more weaselly undermining by the Sociofascists who cannot bear to see the establishment or power held by anyone other than themselves.

Omar Khyam - though the plot so good, he bought the explosives.

MJW said...

I wonder if the people having a whinge at MI5 are the same people who had a whinge at the tougher anti-terrorist legislation because it was too tough on the poor, ickle terrorists?

How come only terrorists seem to be considered worthy of human rights?

Bag said...

They do have a difficult job to do. One that is full of uncertainties and wasted time. It's difficult to look back at decisions made with the full 20/20 vision of future knowledge and fairly critique actions. Plus peoplem ake mistakes and overworked people more by the fact they are rushing and by the fact they do not have the time to evaluate everything. I'd rather that we looked at the mistakes to see if anything could be learnt from them. I'm not overly sure our government could do this without interfering to cover up their cock ups.

It's a tough decision. I support our security services but at the same time I don't want people to die because they are unacountable. They appear to do a good job and in their line of business mistakes cost lives. That needs special attention.

Guido Faux said...


Just like any other incompetent government bureaucracy surely.

Why the special treatment? Does it boost your right-wing credentials?

Privatise the fuckers.

bloggingjames said...

Another here, here from me.

When will people learn that organisations do not have unlimited resources. They are so quick to criticise with their so called heavy handed raids and now there criticising for not doing enough.

I have written a post on my blog with a reference to this article.

james higham said...

Hmmm - food for thought here but there is anotehr factor - what they are permitted to "see".

Steve_Roberts said...

Up to a point, dear devil, but: a) telling us the 7/7s were 'cleanskins' was a lie, only revealed as such in court, it makes you wonder what other lies the government has told us, and whether government policy is based on lies rather than the unconfortable truth; b) the fact the Crevice and 7/7 were connected calls into question the whole 'surveil everyone' policy of id cards, cctv and dna collection since a focused policy of scrutinising the known associates of known jihadists would have done the business.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, it can help you avoid repeating mistakes, but you have to recognise them as such first.

Martin said...

Guido Faux,

Are you some kind of fucking idiot?

Please name any other country in the world which has privatised its security service - just one.

No, that was a silly question.

If you make a suggestion like that, you must be a fucking idiot.

Guido Faux said...

martin said...

Have you been drinking?

MI5 are a just another inefficient government bureaucracy.

No exceptions.

Martin said...

"MI5 are a just another inefficient government bureaucracy."

No, no, NO!

Don't fucking patronise me by suggesting I've been drinking.

When will stupid fuckers like you learn that there are some activities that nation states MUST perform collectively, such as defence and state security?


Nah, mate, just another bureaucracy, needs to be privatised? Is that the highest level of insight you're capable of? Have you swallowed ideology so deeply that you are actually incapable of critical thought? Have you? Are you unable to think for yourself?

Do you even know what a nation state is, you moron? I may be about to lose mine in two days' time - that possibility sharpens the mind wonderfully.

guido faux said...

martin continued...

"Is that the highest level of insight you're capable of?"

Yes. And you? Well let's see ...

"Are you some kind of fucking idiot?"
"you must be a fucking idiot."
"Don't fucking patronise me"
"stupid fuckers like you"
"you moron"

Wonderful insight. Really great stuff.

"sharpens the mind wonderfully."


Martin said...


You've just admitted you're incapable of independent thought.

Stones and glass houses...

Guido Faux said...


Actually I admitted that privatisation of MI5 was the highest level of insight I was capable of.

I declined to answer your other questions.

Next time try reading the post.

And frankly I don't have time for a flame war so you are hereby cordially invited to have the:

last word

 \  /

Kendrick said...

"it's morally acceptable for women who've aborted their own children to be supported in their old age by the children of others;"


This is the most crazy thing I've read today (admittedly I skipped the preceding comments). There are plenty of good reasons for having an abortion, and plenty of people whose own children don't take care of them in their old age.

Utterly barmy.

Martin said...

"There are plenty of good reasons for having an abortion"

Name just one, please.

Martin said...

Incidentally, Kendrick, your profile cannot be viewed.


Guido Faux said...

"I skipped the preceding comments"

I wise decision.

You can enable your profile for public viewing but you're probably still setting up your blog.

Not that it in any way affects your anonymity - DK already has your IP-address and your soul ...

pascal said...

I was about to say the same as Kendrick.

WTF DK ? Has the UKIP finally got to your head ? I don't agree with a few things you say, but usually you have very valid arguments.

Martin, you are the worse kind of idiot. The one that does not realise he is an idiot. And keeps making an idiot of himself, and proving the guido faux right (which he is).

Devil's Kitchen said...


This piece was written by Martin, not myself, and I may or may not agree with what he says. See my note on authors to see the writing policy here.


Martin said...


Given that both the invisible Kendrick and yourself have agreed that I am an idiot, you might perhaps enlighten me.

Are you agreeing solely with Kendrick's selective quote, or the whole quote? I'm so stupid I really can't tell.

Anonymous said...

Nice to see some honesty from Martin, at least.

BTW, I'd spin the abortion point the other way - it's generous of women (generally of a more educated and sensible ilk) who feel they're unable to deal with the responsibility of bringing a child into the world to subsidise upbringing the endless succession of brats pumped out by the women (generally thick, worthless and chavvy) who don't give a fuck about the consequences.

Fuck, I hate the white working class.


Martin said...

Behold the triumph of Thatcherism, and despair -

"Fuck, I hate the white working class."

I think we can all pack up and go home.

berenike said...

It should be privatised!

No it shouldn't!

Oh yes it should!

Oh no it shouldn't!

Oh yes it should!

Oh no it shouldn't ....

Oh yeah? So what has happened for the last ten years, exactly?

Over at the ASI, they are posting some of the winning entries of the Young Writers on Liberty. One does not want to put such keen minds off,...