Wednesday, February 07, 2007

Caroline Hunt: did you say "Hunt" or...?

I am watching 18DS and it featurs a young Tory blogger called Caroline Hunt; having not heard of her before, I thought that I'd have a look at her blog. With her being a proud member of Conservative Future, I was pretty sure that I would be able to find some piece of fucking idiocy and I wasn't disappointed; since I seem to be on a bit of a UKIP trip at the moment, let's take her recent post on that to start with. I do apologise if I end up repeating myself, but that is because these fucking Tory cunts don't seem to be able to get this shit into their fat heads.
So as I'm sure you've seen Liam Fox made some comments on GMTV this morning saying (essentially) a vote for UKIP is a vote for Labour.

Yes, well, I dealt with the Idiot Fuck-Dwarf's load of fucking nonsense. But Caroline describes herself as "The 56th best Conservative blog on the Internet" so I am sure that her opinions will be of a much higher quality. Ha!
Now this is a subject I care about deeply.

I bet you do, Caroline, but I am pretty fucking sure that you will write something passionate and completely ill-informed that parrots your blinkered leadership's view. Shall we find out, kids?
I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone, anyone would vote UKIP at the next General Election. We have had a Labour government for ten years now. I must be right in thinking that there is not one member of UKIP who would like a Labour government for any longer.

Yeah, but Caro, my little poppet, I see no fucking difference between Cameron's Tories and NuLabour so I actually couldn't give two shits as to which one of these high-tax, Europhile, statist, bastard parties gets in, frankly.
Labour are not interested in their views on Europe, Labour are not interested in their views on immigration, Labour do not support any of the ream of reactionary policies Farage has drawn up to try and increase the sham of suggesting that UKIP are anything other than a single issue party with a one issue agenda - to withdraw from the EU.

Caroline is obviously a fuckwit of the very first water: either that, or Caroline Hunt is, in fact, a David Cameron sock-puppet. I shall quote Trixy on this, since she's spot on (and she fisks our Caro beautifully: go read).
It's also a bit rich for you to say that: 'Labour do not support any of the ream of reactionary policies Farage has drawn up to try and increase the sham of suggesting that UKIP are anything other than a single issue party with a one issue agenda - to withdraw from the EU.'

That's a contradictory comment in itself. If there are other policies, how can it be a single issue party? And why attack Labour for not supporting them when Nu Tories don't either?

Our Caroline is almost as consistent and logical in her arguments as Polly Toynbee.
Now it is not Conservative party policy to withdraw from the EU. However it is not Labour party policy or Lib Dem party policy either.

Which is why people want to vote UKIP (or the BNP) rather than one of the three main parties, you fucking twit.
There are however Conservative MP's who support withdrawal from the EU.

Yeah. And. So. What?

What good is that when it is Tory Party policy—as stated by their Chairman, Francis Maude—to remain within the EU?
It is not the Conservative Party's view that we should be out of the European Union.

Further, Tory MPs have been warned that if they sign up to Better Off Out, or if they are EUsceptic, then they will not get into the Shadow Cabinet.
I'm not aware of any in the other two parties.

Really, love? Tell you what, why don't you check the Better Off Out website, eh? You might find out that Labour's Austin Mitchell MP is a signatory. Sure, there are more Conservatives, but that is, as I pointed out, irrelevant whilst the party leadership is so pro-EU.
All Conservative MP's are deeply concerned about the undemocratic, bureaucratic waste of money that is the current form of the EU.

Yup, but Cameron wants to give yet more power, especially in "green" areas, to the EU.
Deeply anti-EU MEP's like Roger Helmer and Dan Hannan stand under the Conservative banner.

Erm... Up to a point, Lord Copper. To quote Trixy again:
As for Helmer and Hannan. Well, the fact that Helmer was thrown out of the EPP for doing what he was elected to do is illustrative of the true feelings in the Tory party towards anyone with EUsceptic leanings.

Helmer was given the whip back after he wrote a letter to Cameron saying he would join UKIP unless the whip was restored, so clearly he thinks that there is a reason to vote UKIP.
Or, as Wikipedia puts it:
He was first elected to the European Parliament in 1999 as a Conservative Party MEP, and re-elected in 2004. He was subsequently suspended from the party on 26 May 2005 after voting against party instructions on a motion to censure the European Commission and openly criticising his delegation leader, Timothy Kirkhope, in a parliamentary debate [1]. As of 13 September 2006, he has had the Conservative party whip restored[2]. However, he still sits as a Non-attached Member, and not in the EPP-ED Group to which all other Conservative MEPs belong.

So, Helmer doesn't actually sit along with the other Tories. Ho hum...
So if you were UKIP's target audience why on earth would you vote for a party that has not and will not win a single seat at Westminster and will absolutely positively never form a government?

I'm sorry, Caroline, do you know something that I don't? Is there a ban on voting for UKIP? Are UKIP candidates banned from Westminster even if they get elected?

Look, you stupid fuck, if people vote for UKIP in sufficient numbers then they will get MPs. For fuck's sake, woman, that's what democracy is about!
Especially since by voting for them 8 times out of 10 you are reducing the number of votes for the only party other than the Labour party that can form a government at the next general election?

Really? Why's that? Is there some law that says only the Tories or Labour can form a government? Er, I don't think so...
Frankly they deserve what they get if they let in another Labour government that won't have the balls to stand up to the EU.

Oh, right. The party who took us into the EEC, who signed the Maastricht Treaty, who refused to hold a referendum on the Euro, are the ones who are going to "stand up to the EU", are they? Yeah, right.
However if they have any sense they'll vote for the only party that comes close to representing their views - the Conservative Party.


Look, Caro, you silly bitch, why I support UKIP is laid out in detail in this post, but why don't I summarise it for you?
  1. I want us to leave the EU, for reasons too numerous to mention. The Tories don't, UKIP do.

  2. I support worldwide free trade as I believe that it makes us all richer. The Tories don't, being pro-EU, and UKIP do.

  3. I am against state funding of political parties. The Tories are pro-, UKIP are against.

  4. I am against the ID Cards and the National Identity Database. The Tories have only recently decided that they are against them. UKIP have always opposed the idea.

  5. I am a libertarian and believe in freedom of association. The Tories, by opposing the Catholic Church over the gay adoption row, have amply demonstrated that they do not. UKIP supported the Catholic Church's right to an opt-out.

  6. I believe in selection in schools (along with the majority of the rest of people in this country) and in privatising all schools and funding them through a voucher system. The Tories dropped support for grammar schools, selection and for vouchers, whereas UKIP support my views.

  7. Most of all, Caroline, I believe in being ruled by people that I have elected and not in being ruled by a bunch of unelected bureacrats in Brussels, you twat.

Essentially, Caroline, I want to vote UKIP because I agree with their views and I agree with almost nothing that Cameron's Conservatives have ever said. I am fed up voting for the Tories simply because they are less awful than Labour: I want to vote for a political party that I agree with for once.

I have been relatively kind to Caroline, because she is only wee; however, since she is "The 56th best Conservative blog on the Internet" and yet spouts this kind of utter bollocks, and because Polly is in hibernation, your humble Devil will be returning to the subject of Ms Hunt...


Matthew Sinclair said...


I've made this argument before but I'll make it again. This is why, even if all your criticisms of Conservative policy are true, the UKIP still doesn't make sense:

The Conservative party isn't the property of the current leadership or the parliamentary party. It is a broad collection of those Britons with a broadly conservative approach to politics. If you can't convince the Conservative membership how can you ever hope to convince the country? If you can why not try and win the next leadership election?

More detail in the post.

Devil's Kitchen said...


I shall address your post (I meant to a while back but was too busy), but I can summarise thusly.

Some people will vote for anything Conservative, in the same way that many Old Labourites voted Tony Blair back in twice, despite moans that NuLabour weren't real Labour. These people will never be convinced. Caroline Hunt is one of those people.

The fact is, though, that many people will be convinced. A good number of Conservatives (and those from other parties too, actually) have converted after reading The Kitchen. More are considering it. Others have pledged help, support and votes, although they have not joined the party. I know, because they've told me.

At a recent County Council election, UKIP polled over 19%; is there a cast-iron reason why should that not be repeated in a GE? If we can get the message out that there is a party standing on libertarian (not conservative: they are not the same thing at all) values, then why should we not get votes if we get our message out?

Lastly, Matt, the single biggest vote in this country is those who do not vote: over 40%. These are the disenfranchised and disillusioned; the people who feel that no one speaks for them. I am not saying that all of them would vote for UKIP but, since we are pushing policies that the Conservatives have never credibly espoused (such as withdrawal from the EU), it follows that some of those people may well be inclined to vote for us.

What we have to do is to persuade them that we are a credible party, which is what the current shake-up is all about.

You said, in your post, the following:

"I'm not telling those who support leaving the EU they should put up and shut up but that forming a new party is not the way to change the debate."

Really? Why's that, Matt? The Conservatives know that a huge number of their voters are anti-EU, yet they have not changed their policy. The Conservatives know that a number of their MPs are anti-EU, yet they have not changed their policy. The Conservatives know that a number of their Councillors are anti-EU, yet they have not changed their policy.

It seems to me that setting up a new party is precisely the way to go in the face of such obduracy. If people like John Redwood -- who is anti-EU and, incidentally, anti-state funding of political parties -- had even a smidgeon of self-respect and integrity, he would join UKIP. He hasn't because like all the other Tory MPs, all he cares about is getting his fat snout in the trough.

Well, if stuffing these traitorous cunts mean that they change their policy, all well and good from the point of view of pure spite. If UKIP can gain MPs, even better. We have a voice in Westminster now, and our Lords are asking questions.

Prepare for the EU to be back on the agenda.


Matthew Sinclair said...

The key problem with your summary is that you are still using "The Conservatives" to refer to the party leadership. If you can convince a majority of the party members then that leadership will change. If you can't convince a majority of the Tory membership, statistically by far the most anti-EU portion of the electorate, do you really think you can win an election?

I await your full response with eager trepidation :)

Martin said...


To all intents and purposes, UKIP seems to be the Conservative Party I thought I was voting for 16 years.

Good enough for me, and it should be good enough for every Tory like me who ever trooped into a booth in Labour's heartland provinces and voted Tory in the full knowledge their guy wouldn't win.

I have never voted for a winning candidate, never; with UKIP, I think I might.

UKIP is our fathers' Conservative Party; and here's a thought that might have both Blair's and Cameron's apparatchiks scratching their heads - a quick read of its manifesto indicates it holds the same strong belief in nationhood and citizenship as did our grandfathers' Labour Party.

Anonymous said...

"The 56th best Conservative blog on the Internet"

Well, if I remembers correctly, the Remittance Man was ranked 40-somethingth. And he writes complete bollox most of the time.


Matthew Sinclair said...

I really hope "our grandfathers' Labour Party" is just an honest mistake and you're not trying to sell the UKIP's similarity to the BNP (who famously used "our grandfathers' Labour Party" in election material at the last election).

Martin said...

Fuck off, Sinclair.

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