Both effectively make the same point: that Palestinians democratically electing Hamas vindicates Israel’s argument that there is no peace partner.
That was not a point that I made; there was no vindication of Israel in my post. What I did point out was that Hamas have never acknowledged Israel's right to exist, nor have they renounced violence.
If they fail, well, we’ll be forced to keep colonising and occupying their lands, demolishing their homes and shooting their kids- ensuring that they “taste Israeli steel,” as Ottolenghi puts it. And of course, we have to accelerate construction of the Wall: the animals must be encaged.
Is this in the same way that the Israelis have kept colonising Gaza? And these kids that they are killing: are they the ones that run at those checkpoints with guns? Or explosives slung around their waists?
As for the invasion and colonisation, can we please remember who first invaded Palestine, in 1948?
The Arabs had rejected the November 1947 UN Partition Plan, which proposed the establishment of Arab and Jewish states in Palestine. Jewish and Arab militias had begun campaigns to control territory inside and outside the designated borders. Joint Jordanian, Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese and Iraqi troops invaded Palestine, which Israel, the US, the Soviet Union, and UN Secretary-General Trygve Lie called illegal aggression, while China broadly backed the Arab claims. The Arab states proclaimed their aim of a "United State of Palestine" in place of Israel and an Arab state. They considered the UN Plan to be invalid because it was opposed by Palestine's Arab majority, and claimed that the British withdrawal led to an absence of legal authority, making it necessary for them to protect Arab lives and property.
Were the Palestinians to look upon the Arabs as saviours? No: Plaestinians of all persuasions were displaced (by both Arabs and Israelis).
About two thirds of Palestinian Arabs fled or were expelled from the territories which came under Jewish control (see Palestinian exodus); practically all of the much smaller number of Jews in the territories captured by the Arabs, for example the Old City of Jerusalem, also fled or were expelled. About 700,000 Arabs (estimates vary from 520,000 to 957,000 ) became refugees during the fighting.
The fighting ended with signing of the Rhodes Armistice, which formalized Israeli control of the area allotted to the Jewish state plus 23% of the area allotted to the Arab state. The Gaza Strip was occupied by Egypt and the West Bank by Jordan until June 1967.
Hang on? The Gaza Strip was occupied by Egypt? The West Bank was occupied by Jordan? What! I thought that it was only the evil Jews who had ever occupied those lands? What the fuck? And how did the Israelis get their mitts on those areas?
The Six-Day War, 1967 began as a strike by Israel, which Israel and its supporters consider preemptive, against Egypt and Syria following the Egyptian closure of the Straits of Tiran (a casus belli, according to a possible interpretation of international law), a build up of troops along the Syrian border, expulsion of U.N. peacekeepers from the Sinai, stationing some 100,000 Egyptian troops at the peninsula, and a public announcement by Nasser that he intended to destroy Israel . (In fact Nasser had said this would be an objective only if Israel "embarks on an aggression against Syria or Egypt"). Surprise Israeli air strikes destroyed the entire Egyptian air force while still on the ground. A subsequent ground invasion into Egyptian territory led to Israel's conquest of the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula. In spite of Israel's request to Jordan to desist from attacking it, both Jordan and Syria began to shell Israeli targets; Israel responded by capturing the West Bank from Jordan on June 7, and the Golan Heights from Syria on June 9.
Oh, whoops! You can read more about the Six Day War, a model—from the Arab side—of how not to fight a war, here, but here are some salient points.
On 18 May, 1967, Egypt formally requested the withdrawal of UNEF from Sinai. UN Secretary-General U Thant complied, thus removing the international buffer which had existed along the Egyptian-Israeli border since 1957. Egyptian president Gamal Abdel Nasser then began the re-militarization of the Sinai, and concentrated tanks and troops on the border with Israel.
On 23 May, Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran to all Israel-bound ships, thus blockading the Israeli port of Eilat at the northern end of the Gulf of Aqaba. Israel viewed the closure of the straits with alarm and demanded the US and UK to open the straits as they guaranteed they would in 1957. Harold Wilson's proposal of an international maritime force to quell the crisis was adopted by US President Johnson, but received little international support. The Israeli cabinet met on 23 May and decided to launch a pre-emptive strike if the Straits of Tiran were not re-opened by 25 May, later agreeing to a delay of another two weeks at US request.
On May 30, Jordan signed a mutual defense treaty with Egypt, thereby joining the military alliance already in place between Egypt and Syria. Jordanian forces were placed under the command of Egyptian General Abdul Munim Riad. This put Arab forces just 17 kilometers from Israel's coast, a jump-off point from which a well co-ordinated tank assault would likely cut Israel in two within half an hour. Such a coordinated attack from the West Bank was always viewed by the Israeli leadership as a threat to Israel's existence. Nasser declared: "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight". At the same time, several other Arab states not bordering Israel, including Iraq, Sudan, Kuwait and Algeria, also began mobilising their armed forces.
However, because the Arabs were all fighting amongst themselves, and because they were fucking spastics, they lost the war and Egypt and Jordan lost the territories that they had previously taken from the Palestinians. Whoops, what a fuck-up.
The basic conclusion that we come to is that, essentially, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip have not belonged to the people who call themselves the Palestinians since at least 1948, and the original aggressive invasion was not by the Israelis, but by the Arabs. In truth, had the Arabs not made constant attempts, either by overt invasion or by "people's intifadas", to destroy Israel, then the Jews would not have the West Bank, the Gaza Strip or the Golan Heights.
Many have also objected to the Israeli strikes upon Arab leaders, which they maintain is no different to the killing of Israeli teenagers in an Israeli nightclub. Bollocks.
If these terrorists had not instigated the bombings (and rocket attacks from the Gaza Strip three days after the Palestinians moved back into it) in the first place, then Israel wouldn't be trying to assassinate them. Nor would they be building a bloody great wall around their country.
Whilst I think that the two state option is the best idea, regardless of the fact that the Arabs rejected this idea in 1947, it is not going to happen whilst the Palestinians keep bombing the Israelis (and the Israelis keep killing the Palestinians, obviously).
Hamas weren’t voted into office for suicide bombings. Hamas haven’t even carried out any suicide bombs since 2004.
Well, that really is very generous of them.
Another reason Fateh were ousted was that their leaders were considered corrupt and self-servicing while Hamas’s leadership has spent over a decade building a functioning network of social services that the PA should have been providing.
Well, that's really great. Well done Hamas, the gentle social workers. Wow. Perhaps they have reformed. I'll just not bet on it.
An interesting article by the Intifada Kid that, unfortunately, fails to give any concrete facts; just rhetoric about Israeli invasion and kiddie-killing. In fact, it is as dismissive and biased in its tone as my brief post was. Interesting to get a view on the ground though, as I said.