Comments on The Devil's Kitchen: Pilgrims

It's all so petty, isn't it? I mean if yo...

2012-01-15T17:27:44.457Z

It's all so petty, isn't it? I mean if you put all the union members together, the total would still be less than the membership of the National Trust. So who's the more important? Anyway, the best route is what the Germans do - workers and bosses meet - yes, they actually meet and discuss things rather than leap about bad-mouthing each other. And which country still has an automobile industry of its own, eh?

Unions aren't being banned. They just can...

2012-01-11T23:39:46.841Z

Unions aren't being banned.

They just can't act in the same way as crony capitalists and get the government to fund their activities.

They can fund it themselves

In the 1980s, at my school (Newport Free Grammar, ...

2012-01-04T14:48:44.418Z

In the 1980s, at my school (Newport Free Grammar, nr Saffron Walden, if you must know) there was an English teacher (Mr Kirkham, you ought to know) to whose class I was allocated at about the age of 14. During the course of that entire school year, he actually took the class on either two or three occasions (I cannot recall exactly which), and was absent the rest of the time on union business. Come to think of it, one of the small number of lessons he DID take was spent lecturing us on the iniquities of the government of the day. He was notorious at the school for haring around the place in shirt-sleeves with a piece of paper in his hand, shuttling from one piece of agitation to the next. I could never work out how he got away with it, it was quite blatant, with no attempt at disguising his activities. He was an intelligent man, but a professional fraud.

And the position, as has been said of employees un...

2012-01-03T17:38:52.876Z

And the position, as has been said of employees unfairly victimised, and it still happens, all too frequently, or of employees raising REAL safety concerns …
And then being crapped-on from a great height by the financial power of the employers…
Needs a countervailing balance.

Would this Mr Davis, or the proponent of this article, even, similarly ban the CBI and the IoD?
And the other cosy-corporate “associations”?
Thought not.

In fact, what Mr Davis has proposed smacks of state corporatism, or even actual fascism.

Which is not nice at all …..

Tomrat - it all depends on whether they follow the...

2012-01-03T08:37:17.958Z

Tomrat - it all depends on whether they follow the legal route when balloting for strike action.

Personally, I don't have a problem with people withholding their labour in the event of a dispute that cannot be resolved any other way. That is a basic civil liberty. But, then, I would expect them to be prepared to accept any adverse consequences that may arise.

Longrider, I agree with your point but incidental...

2012-01-03T00:15:50.232Z

Longrider,

I agree with your point but incidentally don't unions and their members enjoy a special status under the law? I believe amongst other things it is the right to down tools without fear of being fired for doing so: Tis a tricky one but gotta say I would be of a mind to halt this right.

From the BIS website on the UMF: The Union Mod...

2012-01-03T00:13:06.388Z
From the BIS website on the UMF:

The Union Modernisation Fund (UMF) is a grant scheme, launched by the previous government, providing financial assistance to independent trade unions and their federations for a limited period. It was designed to support innovative modernisation projects which contribute to a transformational change in the organisational effectiveness of a trade union. The UMF sought to enhance the ability of trade unions to meet the needs of their members and to make an effective contribution to constructive employment relations and the economy as a whole.

Am I the only one not seeing any cogent artifact of what it actually does? Does it pay for computers? Time lost? Anything tangible? Hmm...

The new "settlement", to be imposed (...

2012-01-02T17:44:25.446Z
The new "settlement", to be imposed (the "unions" would say "agreed" but we won't) after the election of the first government of the English Revolutionary-Liberalist-Party, will include the abolition of the "trade" "unions". All of them.

So freedom of association won't exist in your new utopia, then?

Whatever you might like to call your party, liberal, it ain't.

What about their large pensions? Look at the real...

2012-01-02T15:21:57.741Z
What about their large pensions?

Look at the real cost, the cost of buying an equivalent in the open market.

1. Annuities are the lowest cost product going. 0.25% pa to administer. What's the cost of a government administered pensions? It not going to be below that.

2. If you think that the cost in the open market is too expensive, inform us how the government can do it cheaper.

I agree with the argument, but as anonymous says a...

2012-01-02T05:49:30.079Z
I agree with the argument, but as anonymous says at 9:34pm on the 30th, pilgrims only cost once, not twice.

That's why I think the following needs to be d...

2012-01-01T12:48:40.081Z
That's why I think the following needs to be done.

1. All debts need to be published. (If they aren't on the list, its illegal to pay them)

2. Every tax payer gets a pro rata share of the debt, as an annual bill.

That is all that is needed to solve the problem.

If you doubt it, think about what happens if you suddenly got a bill from the government demanding 225,000 pounds

Also, I'm not sure that our Party's propos...

2012-01-01T01:20:11.527Z
Also, I'm not sure that our Party's proposals go far enough.

Socialism engendered the "trade" unions" on purpose, as an outwardly-charitable, Christian-mimicking method for strangling-at-birth the real, important, industrio-technological take-off of Man, in the late 19th century. It was a masterful throw of the dice of foul, wicked, reactionary, neopastoralist-idyll-Nazis posing as humanitarians (yes I do know about Godwin's Law too) and it's so far almost worked, as we can all see, for we are nearly f****d.

If a way could be worked out to help the British to not want periodically to willingly rub their noses in socialist shit every couple of decades, despite the obvious "lessons learned" each time, then it won't be necessary to make it illegal to possess, share, obtain, download, upload, write or photocopy anything justifying or advocating socialism of any variety.

Of course, there is no question of any kind of socialist being allowed to stand in elections. Too much damage has been done, and lies all about us yet unrepaired: what can they be thinking - that the electorate is stupid?

Look, people, I don't think we've been rea...

2012-01-01T00:56:55.644Z
Look, people, I don't think we've been really taking this "trade" "union" (the real irony is the "trade" bit: they have nothing whatever to do with classical trading) scam seriously enough for the last 120 years or so. In the 1930s, Stalin famously asked an IRA delegation, come to admire and worship him, "How many priests have you shot?" They answered "none". He shambled out of the room, leaving them, muttering "you people are not serious at all".

There is no reason for "trade unions" to exist in a world where employee and amployer can make a contract, for services and work to be delivered in return for monetary (or other) reward received. Furthermore, we no longer make steel, mine coal, build ships or railways or power stations or roads, or lay cables anywhere by the billion miles. We therefore have no advantage in "collective bargaining of wage rates for thousands and thousands and thousands of people at once, all doing the same thing. Even Boris Johnson's ridiculous iron Olympicky thingy, useless and repellent and 400 feet high, took about five crainies and stevedores to erect, all doing different things.

The new "settlement", to be imposed (the "unions" would say "agreed" but we won't) after the election of the first government of the English Revolutionary-Liberalist-Party, will include the abolition of the "trade" "unions". All of them. including the BMA, the GTC, the whatever nurses have, the NUT, and the like. In fact if we simply bring a Bill to abolish all corporate and/or professional bodies and "unions" formed after 1832, including "charities" (they can start again under a new dispensation for real-charities if they are "serious" about "charity") we will catch nearly all of them.

I'd hesitate to have to create a new, retrospective Criminal Offence: that of having knowingly or un-knowingly been any "officer" (of any grade or rank) of any self-defined "trade" "union" between the years 1867 and 2050 inclusive: but we might have to threaten it in order to drain the swamp and smoke all the bastards out of the woodwork, even if we decide in our limitless clemency to not do it.

The Union modernisation fund was a way to channel ...

2011-12-31T00:59:00.883Z
The Union modernisation fund was a way to channel taxpayer money into the Labour Party, Labour set it up, gave the unions taxpayer money, Unions "donate" to Labour

The "Pilgrim" herself is now in the Gree...

2011-12-30T22:00:36.357Z
The "Pilgrim" herself is now in the Green Party if her support for a Green Party member in the last local elections is anything to go by - http://www.kingston.gov.uk/be_notice_of_poll.pdf

Address of Green Party member suspiciously close to her own address at http://www.diggersanddreamers.org.uk/index.php?one=pnm&two=det&sel=crescent; note the email address for the Crescent Road Community.

I completely agree with this campaign, but can som...

2011-12-30T21:34:29.465Z
I completely agree with this campaign, but can someone please explain the "whacked twice" bit? Guido claims this as well.

Surely the money is only being wasted once - we pay for one set of teachers, and one set of people doing other stuff.

Because we're all cunts. Happy now? Any proper...

2011-12-30T21:32:55.305Z
Because we're all cunts. Happy now? Any proper English vocabulary includes all the words that the bedwetters now have chosen to dislike. My mother was a well educated lady, originally a refugee from Germany at the age of 9. For her, all English words were of equal merit if used at the right time and in the right context. Seems fair to me.

Some comments are very valid, but why do most comm...

2011-12-30T18:59:50.737Z
Some comments are very valid, but why do most comment leavers have to use such foul language? All it displays is immaturity, low intellect, lack of education and poor vocabulary.

Please try to grow up!

Brassiko

I wonder how her business on the side is going? If...

2011-12-30T18:48:36.539Z
I wonder how her business on the side is going? If I remember it rejoiced in the name "Pilgrim's Way" and advised businesses how best to cave in to union blackmail.

Anon, Whoops! Excised... DK

2011-12-30T18:39:47.714Z
Anon,

Whoops! Excised...

DK

> subsidises the unions to the tune of over £11...

2011-12-30T18:11:42.851Z
> subsidises the unions to the tune of over £113 million a year (roughly £1.6 million for every man, woman and child in the country)
Wat?

(You're totally right on everything else, of course; just pointing this out for you before the reds do.)

The Greeks have it right too. 50% of the economy...

2011-12-30T17:33:42.143Z
The Greeks have it right too.

50% of the economy is now the black economy and rising. They have cut the government out of the loop. Starve the beast in practice.

Heavy unionisation is largely a public sector p...

2011-12-30T17:32:41.838Z
Heavy unionisation is largely a public sector phenomenon

Widen the scope. What the the 'collectives' doing in the UK at the moment and who are they?

Public sector unions are one such set up. Public sector workers against their employer's - the government.

What about the other collectives?

From father's for justice - against the government, to parking campaigns - against the government, they almost all feature the citizen versus the state.

Either rent seeking or protesting, the common factor is the government.

Government is the problem not the solution.

I will support your support. I am a union member,...

2011-12-30T17:20:56.765Z
I will support your support.

I am a union member, although not a labour party contributor.I can't say I've seen much modernisation in 5 years. The same propaganda on the same badly photocopied paper. no new high tech brochures. not even a powerpoint.

I have been in 3 unions. All of them were concerned about union business, union promotions above everything else.

Why does Cameron support the modernisation scheme? There must be, as you surmise, some dark room/back door agreement that Labour won't mention 'x' if Cameron gives a tiny drop in the ocean of taxpayer's cash to Labour.

There isn't any other reasonable explanation.