Tuesday, December 29, 2009

More classic classery

In my last post on this subject, I asked Sunny who, exactly, decided who the "deserving" rich were. And this is his reply...
@devilskitchen the public decides who is 'deserving'. If you actually do some reading at the link I posted, you'll see a full report on it

The "public" decides, does it? And what do "the public" know of individual cases? What do "the public" know about what work it takes to do a job?

And how shall "the public" decide—through referenda, or lynch mobs? Will these be held at regular intervals? This year, for instance, "the public" might decide that the bankers should be absolutely crushed with taxes: two years ago, "the public" might have decided that Gordon's praise for the bankers was entirely sincere and voted barely to tax them at all.

How, pray, shall "the public" decide on what CEOs should be paid? Will this pay differ depending on whether "the public" like—or even understand—the product that the CEO's company makes?

The mind boggles, it really does.

In the meantime, this is how a sensible debate on class might be conducted...

17 comments:

The Gipper said...

Given that Mr Hundal has said that it's discriminatory for people to be "solely judged by those identities" is it not a little unfortunate that he has called for "the deserving rich" to be judged by the public? Do they not have other individual identities?

Does that mean that if the public suddenly decides that Hitler "y'know, was a good egg" or that maybe the Holocaust never happened it's suddenly legitimate.

What a clown. What an absolute fool.

JuliaM said...

Would this be the same 'public' that considers 'The X Factor' and 'Strictly Come Dancing' to be the height of televisual entertainment, that keeps 'The Sun' and 'Hello!' magazine solvent, and can barely be bothered to get up off their backsides to take part in the electoral system?

I can see why Sunny is counting on them...

JuliaM said...

I wonder if Sunny is so happy about all 'the public's' opinions?

"Of the 1,000 people asked, 60% said the UK had too many immigrants and half wanted foreigners encouraged to leave."

"Almost two-thirds of voters want a significant loosening of Britain's ties with the European Union including an end to the supremacy of the European Court of Justice."

JuliaM said...

Oddly enough, the people at 'Liberal Conspiracy' don't seem to share Sunny's faith in letting 'the public' decide, particularly when it comes to opinion polls.

Odd, that...

Peter said...

You're at your worst when you strawman like this, DK. It's pretty clear both what Sunny means by "class" and what he meant by "the public decides" (ie. we elect MPs, and then it is they that decide, in parliament, what we do).

Roger Thornhill said...

But, JuliaM, "the public" is what the Left decides it to be and, as we know, the Left speaks for the public and knows what it thinks. At all times. In it's dreams.

As I mentioned in my comment to the first installment, Sunny appears to delude himself that he will always be in control of or in agreement with who is "us" and who is "them", with himself in the "us" camp.

People will always have labels given to them by individuals. That is freedom of opinion, association/disassociation. The State has no such right. Even if it did, experience shows it is infinitely too clumsy, riddled with the personal prejudicies of it's agents magnified and corrupted by the force of law (which personal opinion never has normally) to be able to do good in such a way.

Anonymous said...

There's a great mechanism which allows the public to decide things like who is deserving of money.

It's called the market.

FlyingRodent said...

I'm quite entertained by the idea that a) libertarians cheered for religiously-targeted legislation aimed at forcing majority opinion on a minority and some left wingers didn't, and that b) this somehow reflects badly on the lefties.

http://bit.ly/8BLtLk

BenS said...

'The public' decides?

That's not a vague, dangerous or ridiculous notion at all.

Pat said...

Of course the public should decide. Furthermore it should be their revealed choices, rather than their pronouncements that their decision should be known by.
We have a very well tried means of doing this, that has worked for centuries. Its called the market. The only difficulty is in getting power hungry demagogues to but out.

Sunny said...

libertarians contemptuous of most people's opinion shock!

Except, when it comes to immigration of course.

Given that you obviously hate reading around Mounsey - especially since you write a lot about economics without actually knowing much about Adam Smith - I did say the polls illustrated how the public made a distinction between the 'undeserving' and
deserving' rich.

If you can't be arsed to read it - fair enough - but this is anti-intellectualism at its worst: Some jumped up leader of a minor party trying to score points by admitting he doesn't understand or doesn't want to read a short report on an issue where all is explained.

BenS said...

Sunny, which polls?

Roger Thornhill said...

Sunny, Libertarians are not contemptuous of peoples' opinions - quite the opposite and unlike the contempt of same by The Left.

The contempt that Libertarians feel is when mob rule is translated by pandering and desperate administrations into "law" to target a minority, in this case determined by some nebulous, specious concept of "underserving rich".

Ps I admire the sensitivity of your wifi transceiver, seeing as it still manages to maintain a connection with you at the bottom of a very deep - and getting deeper - hole.

Mark M said...

"The public decides who is 'deserving'."

Hey, we're getting somewhere. Sunny Hundal believes in Direct Democracy. This is truly something.

Prodicus said...

Reading that discussion at Left Outside, I have formed two conclusions. First, that sociology is not a science but a lot of cock and, second, that your stamina is bloody awesome.

Gareth said...

Sunny H said: "Some jumped up leader of a minor party..."

And you are what?

Anonymous said...

Everyone seems to have this the wrong way round. We should agree with Sunny, the public ought to decide what people deserve, indeed, they already do so, that is exactly what the market does.

It is through the mechanisms of supply and demand (determined by the public and what they want/ need) that the marginal productivity of labour, on which wages are based, is determined.