Sunday, June 14, 2009

Bluster and bollocks: the Tories on Lisbon

Via Faustie's Blog, here is a video from the Politics Show about what the Tories plan to do with their referendum on the Lisbon Treaty if the Treaty is ratified, as looks likely, by the time that the Conservatives get into government.


The upshot is, basically, "bugger all".

The point is this: the Lisbon Treaty has already been ratified by our government, and the Lisbon Treaty supercedes all other Treaties. There is no negotiation to be made as regards the terms of that Treaty—there are no opt-outs available.

(In fact, your humble Devil likes to imagine the EU elites paraphrasing Darth Vader of the Evil Empire: "there'll be no one to stop us this time."

Of course, the President of the EU Commission, Senor Barroso, may see the whole thing rather more literallyas he revealed in July 2007.
"Sometimes I like to compare the EU as a creation to the organisation of Empires. We have the dimension of Empire but there is a great difference. Empires were usually made with force with a centre imposing diktat, a will on the others. Now what we have is the first non-Imperial empire. We have 27 countries that fully decided to work together and to pool their sovereignty. I believe it is a great construction and we should be proud of it. At least, we in the Commission are proud of it."

Indeed.)

As UKIP's Nigel Farage points out on the video, if the Treaty is ratified, Cameron only has two options: he can say, "terribly sorry, chaps, but there's bugger all that we can do" or he can offer a referendum on our membership of the EU—should we leave we might then, as Hannan points out, apply for membership of EFTA (which would give us all of the benefits of the free trade area without, to an extent, the political entanglements).

There is, of course, a third option, and it is this that the Tories seem to be embracing: wibble on about how you are going to try to change things whilst, in reality, they can do absolutely less than bugger all because the Lisbon Treaty is not up for renegotiation.

Whichever option the Tories choose—and I'm laying a heavy bet on it being option three—the message is very clear: if you think that the EU is in any way an important issue to Britain, then it's tough tits to you, matey, because the three main parties are only offering one choice—staying in the EU.

For fuck's sake, we know that the majority of the country is EUsceptic—almost every fucking poll conducted shows that—but not a single one of the three main parties (those that are likely to win a majority) are actually offering even a referendum on membership.

Fucking hell: ain't democracy brilliant?

11 comments:

Chris said...

Dear wankers in the hydra party

I implore you to keep adding more more intrusive legislation, more unaccountable quangos, more rammed-through EU bollocks, more scum pouring into the country while people we want (native and visitor) are forced out, and ever more debt to our aching backs.

Oh, and while you're about it make sure you block off our collective pressure release valves. Your interchangeable and unwelcome policies can only possibly end well, with you being cheered to the echo by the adoring electors. Cheered and cheered, just like Ceauşescu was.

sincerely

The Monster You Created

Fausty said...

The Tories seem to think that conservative types will vote Tory just to get Labour out.

That might've been true before Labour embarked on its death spiral but it isn't necessarily true now. The Tories didn't do as well as they'd hoped in the EU elections precisely because of Cameron's stance. If Clarke had spoken before the EU elections, the Tory vote would've been considerably reduced.

If the polls are correct and Labour get ~20% of the vote and if more senior Tories back UKIP, the Tories are not at all assured of a clean win in the GE.

David Davis said...

I am not sure people have cottoned on here, it is very simple.

Look, this is a Sovereign Nation. it doesn't matter what powers Westminster "says" it has given away. It can't do it: it just can't. It is void.

A Parliament can simply vote that it has dis-ratified "Lisbon". It can. Just watch one do it and then say what "the EU" can do!

It is the single most powerful legislature in the world and always has been. I mean, we abolished slavery in 1807 and made it a criminal offence everywhere on the planet (and yet we still were made through smoke and mirrors to apoligise...)

No no no. We -/can/- leave. We __CAN__ simply delete Rome, the SEA, and Maastricht, and Nice, and Lisbon.

Will they come after us with guns?

Will they give us a hard time seeing that we owe their firms so much money?

I think not.

We __CAN__ go! We can!

Gareth said...

David Davis,

Quite right.

MPs occasionally make a big play of how one Government or Parliament cannot bind successive Government or Parliament. For obvious reasons - Parliaments and Governments of the past no longer have authority. Yet on this matter they make it obvious they have no intention of backing out of it and often say we can't leave.

Everything on the statute book is up for deletion or amending if Parliament wanted to do it. Any treaty could be exited in a flash if Parliament insisted upon it.

The pygmies in Parliament have become so entrenched in their perversion of Parliamentary ways that they are discussing sunset clauses in legislation to force it to return Parliament. This would be entirely uneccessary if we had proper Parliamentarians in Parliament who understood the need for legislation to be reconsidered as times and society changes.

Cameron, Brown, Clegg and the rest know perfectly well we could be out of the EU in a realtive jiffy if the people said it must happen. All they would (and should) be doing is relaying our voice to Brussels. That's why we'll never get asked.

North Northwester said...

"If the polls are correct and Labour get ~20% of the vote and if more senior Tories back UKIP, the Tories are not at all assured of a clean win in the GE."

There's a distinction here.
I'm True Blue - you'd hate about half my posts, but I'm never going to vote Tory in European elections until and unless they campaign on a membership referendum and back leaving as party policy. Full stop.

It's pointless voting Tory otherwise.
Not so at a general election where there are some issues on which the Tories are slightly less repulsive than the other centre fascists of their companion parties.

Give them 40% freedomish-countryish, but no more. But that's better than all the other established parties and sorry, UKIP won't get a look-in at the Westminster polls becasue GEs are still seen as a bread-and-butter things to do with everyday life -despite the Commission generating most of our legislation and despite the Commons' whistle-stop attitude to 'scrutinising' it.

Roue le Jour said...

The EU is utterly dependent on the punters believing in the inevitability of the "ever closer union" rubbish. If one state said, "you know what? We think we'd be bettor off out of this mess." The illusion would be shattered.

Anonymous said...

The "conservative party" have no intention of getting anything back from the EU, much less getting us out of it's evil clutches. Maybe Cameron is a fully paid up member, the pensions are good. Clarke of course is definitely a member, wonder how much he collects from it. He is evil all through and I despise the arrogant shit.

Derek

ENGLISHMAN said...

So where were all of the people when we had the demo on st stephens green for the referendum?It was like the royal enclosure at ascot and the only high point was the devil shouting at spink and others,frankly we had our chance but the people could not care less about freedom or democracy and now we have the tory version of "manifest pledges are not subject to legitimate expectations"the people are the authors of thier own misfortunes.

Chalcedon said...

We were offered a referendum on remaining in the EEC in 1975. There was nothing regarding joining the EEC, that was Ted Heath's little gamble. He got shafted at the last minute about fishing rights too. The Treaty of Rome wasn't explained to the electorate. If we had all seen the first page I expect it would have been a big no as the first page bangs on about political union.

FlipC said...

To recap David Davies and Gareth; and who's saying this - why that'd be Parliament. Perhaps next time any politico starts whittering on about how they can't do anything someone can send them that link for their own organisation's website?

Verity said...

I am pretty certain that Labour will manage to cling on in the next election because David Cameron is weak and doesn't seem to appeal to anyone outside his clique. He won't give a commitment about anything until he has seen which way the wind is blowing and thought up a pr campaign. That is no way to lead.

It would not surprise me to see Labour hanging on by the skin of their teeth in the next election, probably having replaced Brown with Johnson, who will gee up the socialist voters a bit. At least for a while. And the Tories will hemorrhage votes to UKIP.

In this case, Dave will be sacked and a new, real Conservative, Leader will be chosen, and he will call a vote of No Confidence and win it. My guess, 18 months into the new government.

Cameron has seriously, seriously underestimated Britons' attachment to their own country and their own ways and their own laws.

He blows hither and thither with the wind. One minute standing in a parka by a sledge powered by two handsome Huskies from Central Casting on a Swedish ice floe in an obeissance to the great "man made global warming" scam, the next minute announcing the A-list, recently announcing that one-third to one-half of his Cabinet would be women. Dear God! Is there a bien pensant cause he has failed to embrace?