Sunday, March 15, 2009

Define democracy...

I really do think that it's about time that this bunch of clowns changed their name.
Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Tavish Scott is to demand the Scottish Government ditches its planned independence referendum.

Mr Scott will tell his party's conference that Holyrood ministers should focus on tackling the recession.

He will say debating the minority SNP government's Referendum Bill is a waste of taxpayers' cash.

It has been said many, many times: the Liberal Democrats are fans of neither liberalism nor democracy—surely we can sue them under Trading Standards laws?

Me? I hope that Scotland has their referendum, and I hope that the Scots vote for independence. And then we can ditch the first fucking millstone—these five million looters—from around our necks and get on with being productive.

Because it is instructive to remember that we have been bailing out Scotland for as long as the Union has been in place; we have been bailing that country out ever since its bankruptcy—as a result of the ill-fated Darien scheme—and it is time to fucking stop.

Don't get me wrong: I believe that the Union has served us well, and there is no doubt that Britain benefited from, for instance, the Scottish Enlightenment. But that is long gone, and the Scots are nothing now but looters and parasites upon the productive. Furthermore, their arrogance and intractable stupidity—and, having lived in Edinburgh for a decade, I know of what I speak—ensures that all too many Scots are utterly unaware of just how much they owe to England.

Fine. Cut them loose and then, when they are bankrupt (again) and come crawling to England for a bailout (again), we can decide whether or not we wish to take them on (again). Although I cannot imagine why, in all sanity, we would do so.

Scotland is a busted flush: it produces nothing of any value—even its banks are shit and have been bailed out by the English (again).

It's time to stop.

49 comments:

Anonymous said...

So can we have our oil and gas back? Y'know, the oil and gas the English have been looting for the past thirty-odd years.

Anonymous said...

You claim to support the Libertarian Party of the United Kingdom (or LPUK).

Hmmm. LPUK. The UK...which explicitly implies that you are a unionist party. I spot a tiny inconsistency in your argument, Devil.

Not to mention the fact that today you sound like Roderick fucking Spode.

Charlotte Gore said...

Looters and parasites? You really have been reading Atlas Shrugged haven't you? :D

Anonymous said...

While London continues to be millstone round the neck of the rest of England, any benefits from the separation of England and Scotland will be negligible for most.

Devil's Kitchen said...

"Hmmm. LPUK. The UK...which explicitly implies that you are a unionist party. I spot a tiny inconsistency in your argument, Devil."

Wow! Anon, you really are a genius aren't you? Damn! You've got me bang to rights, you have, and no mistake.

At the moment there is a UK, and so we will support the UK. If, however, the Scots have a referendum and decide to fuck off, then I doubt that many of us would cry bitter tears.

I would hope that the Scottish contingent of the party would continue but they might then rename themselves the Scottish Libertarian Party.

Do you see?

DK

dr cromarty said...

So can we have our oil and gas back? Y'know, the oil and gas the English have been looting for the past thirty-odd years.

How about taking your RBS-generated fucking debt back too? Oh, and how about repaying 60 years of money doled out to idle Labour voting fodder in Govan and Easterhouse?

Cuts both ways, you chippy cunt.

Roberto 'Tito' Sarrionandia said...

You really are enjoying Atlas Shrugged!

Time to 'Go Galt' on the People's State of Scotland?

Tim W said...

I've heard from geologists (though thats hardly proof) that when a new country is formed/a country splits the sea boundary follows the trend of the land border. So England would get much of the oil and gas in the North Sea.

Also, can the rest of the UK not have a vote on independence? I'd be first in line to tell Scotland to fuck off - it seems unfair that the decision to split is so one-sided.

Anonymous said...

I never thought I would also feel the same as you. I have worked extensively in Scotland and I really like the Scots. However, there is a mood in the country that wants to be free from England. I say, let them. I wish they wouldn't because it is my belief the EU is determined to isolate England. It has done so with Ireland, and Scotland is next. I believe that the UK has been strong because it is a United Kingdom of Scotland, England, Wales and even Ireland. Once the game is played out, maybe in another 100 years, then we can come together again as a strong force for good.

Anonymous said...

The oil and gas argument is rather misleading. We aren't living in Venezuela; the oil and gas in the N Sea is not owned by the British state but by private companies. BP, Shells etc. have a variety of English and Scottish shareholders (mostly English, Dutch and American). Scotland declaring independence would not make the slightest difference to where this money goes unless they decide to nationalise majority British and Dutch private assets... but they want our support on EU entry (which is still a veto issue)... so theyre a bit stuffed.

On a sentimental basis it would be a shame to lose Scotland. It would really signal the end of the historical Britain that has existed since about the time of the English Civil War and which I think was a great country and for which I have a great deal of affection. But frankly, that country died in 1945, if not before the war.

Our future exceptionalism, if there is to be any, can only be as an especially free, market-oriented, pro-enterprise country. This simply isn't possible with a block vote of state clients returning a solid 59 seats of leftists election after election. Wales is similarly damaging. Northern Ireland is mostly useless and potentially dangerous, but presently tolerable due to the quietening down of the nutters.

Frankly I would much rather England were in Union with Eire and kick out the useless scroungers we have now.

Anonymous said...

Tim W: see Continental Shelf (Jurisdiction) Order 1968 (No. 892 - 7 June 1968).

So you are very wrong. Its Scotland's oil.

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 4:34:"Frankly I would much rather England were in Union with Eire and kick out the useless scroungers we have now." Hahahahahaha - Oh my stomach hurts. Yes, I can just see the Republic of Ireland wanting the English Queen back as Head of State.

Paul Lockett said...

Anon: "The oil and gas argument is rather misleading. We aren't living in Venezuela; the oil and gas in the N Sea is not owned by the British state but by private companies."

That's not true. The ownership of the oil is vested in The Crown, with private companies being licenced to explore and extract within areas of the UK Continental Shelf.

Martin said...

DK,

The analysis of Scottish history which states that the Union of 1707 was a consequence of the financial aftermath of the Darin scheme is incorrect.

I would direct to pages 571 to 584 of 'The Isles', by Norman Davies. It's on Google books. The Union was effected as a consequence of Queen Anne's childlessness leaving a Catholic Stuart as the claimant to the throne.

Freedom and Whisky said...

DK,

I refer you to Scenario C!

Daveb06 said...

Why should we the English have to wait to see what the Scottish or the Welsh want to do concerning independence FREE ENGLAND now and lets see them stand up on their own two feet, I believe they will go running to the EUssr very quickly.

www.freeengland.com

Martin said...

Dave,

Is the CAPS LOCK on your KEYBOARD inoperative?

Anonymous said...

fuck me, I was a little taken aback by the ferocity of this piece.
As a jock, living in england, working in england, married to an english lass, having served the crown overseas enforcing foreign policy and as I have never been out of work (nor have any of my family in scotland) to be called a scrounger is a little harsh. also, having worked in east london, I reckon, looking around, that the least of your worries are a few porridge wogs up north.

Anonymous said...

@Anon 04:44PM

I trump your
'Continental Shelf (Jurisdiction) Order 1968 (No. 892 - 7 June 1968)'

With the more recent
'Scottish Adjacent Waters Boundaries Order 1999'

Martin said...

Tim W,

You know, we have a lot in common. You'd be first in line to tell Scotland to fuck off, if you could - I'd be first in line to a tell a 21 year old who's badly in need of a haircut to fuck off, if I could. But we must suffer each other. I guess that's democracy.

The word verification tag appearing under this comment is 'rantwel'. This imperative has not been much observed in these parts of late.

Martin said...

Anon 3/15/2009 10:47:00 PM

Now, now, credit must be given where it's due - DK lived up here for a decade, and he knows of what he speaks. I've lived here for coming up on four. His analysis in not only harsh, but as far as I can see also commits the far greater cardinal sin of being wrong about the history of how the Union came into being. Perhaps it illustrates the truth of one of my pet theories - that English nationalists are just as daft as Scottish ones. But he lived here for the best part of a decade, and he knows of what he speaks.

Vicola said...

My in laws are Scottish and having encountered a frankly staggering bout of anti-English hostility at the last one of his family weddings I went to then I'd give Scotland it's independance if only because then my mother in law would shut the fuck up. Far be it from me to point out to the ignorant old bat that the Union Jack isn't actually the flag of England so a Scottish building site flying it is not a symbol of vile English colonialism and the theft of Scottish assets. And some Scots need to learn that saying "No offence meant to you" does not negate the offensiveness of saying that 'all the English are arrogant, dirty bastards' to an English woman.

Roger Thornhill said...

If Scotland wants to go, then go it can, like the adult brother it is.

If it should wish to return to stay under our roof, then we would need to be firm but fair. Anything less would foster contempt.

I would rather Scotland shrugged off the Soviet apparatus and stayed.

The Nameless Libertarian said...

Agree totally; the Liberal Democrats are neither Liberal nor Democratic. Any party that supports the EU has the likes of Chris Huhne and Vince Cable as their leading lights should be ashamed to even flirt with the concept of liberalism.

Chris said...

I'd rather keep the Scots on side (look at what England and Scotland together did for the modern world!) and get rid of the filthy chancers squatting in our governments on both sides of the border.

The fuckers in our various pretendy parliaments stoke up our resentment of one another and then they loot us *all* while we squabble among ourselves.

"Hey Scotland/England, I heard that England/Scotland called you a beggar/thief/arrogant lout. Why don't you and him fight?"

Rob said...

If Scotland had voted for independence in 1979, the BoS and RBS would be Edinburgh based and registered, and the fucking catastrophe they have dumped on the UK would have been limited to Scotland. They'd have bankrupted themselves and not only would we have avoided saddling our grandchildren with crippling debt to clean up their shit, but we could have had a good laugh at them too.

Neal Asher said...

Can we make it part of the deal that they take their politicians back too?

NorrieC said...

Hey, that's unfair....

"And then we can ditch the first fucking millstone—these five million looters—from around our necks and get on with being productive."

I'm Scottish and a Libertarian Party member. So I make it 4,999,999 fucking parasites thank you very much. I hate the cunts who have destroyed my country as much as you do...maybe even more. I have no pretensions of independence since the ruling junta couldn't budget their way out of a paper bag if their lives depended on it.

All joking aside, I have many friends of a similar viewpoint which took me by surprise when I started venturing my Libertarian credentials and found a more than sympathetic hearing.

My knowledge of history is not brilliant but I can offer no rational explanation for the Scots hatred of the English or their self-destructive tendencies towards independence.

I am married to my English wife. As with the poster above, she has to put up with this inane abuse.

I am so ashamed to hear the Scottish accents in Westminster and I'm afraid of the almost certain anti-Scottish backlash when the mobs take to the streets. How England has put up with it for so long is nothing short of astounding.

I can only conclude that bread and circuses must so appealing that absolutely anything could be going on around you without the fuckwits taking the slightest bit of notice. The current financial debacle being a case in point.

Both nations have been hijacked by these communist, social engineering cretins. The very system attracts them like flies to a shite. The problem is that sane minded people aren't naturally attracted to politics or local government and hence leave the door open to all the dregs of society to fill their boots at our expense and berate us for the privelege.

Let the revolution begin. I for one am prepared to take back the country of my birth from these bastards.

NorrieC said...

Neil Asher 3/16/2009 02:17:00 PM

"Can we make it part of the deal that they take their politicians back too?"

No, absolutely fucking not. String them up on your own lamposts. We have no use for them here.

Martin said...

Vicola,

Being a Glaswegian, a number of my local brethren consider me to be a class and faith traitor, while a number of the rest consider me to be a Fenian bastard. As far as that particular insult goes, I do not adhere to the adjective, and have it on good advice that the noun is inapplicable. We behave that way with everyone. Don't let it bother you.

Next time, go in a burqa. That'll throw them.

Norrie,

Ah, I see that you have ingested what seems to be the libertarian habit of advocating murder in the name of liberty. All the 'hang them from the lamp-posts' wet-dreamers would be well advised to study the life and times of a provincial non-entity who actually once got the the chance to run his country, and turned it into a charnel house in order to advance the cause of 'virtue'. His name was Maximilien Robespierre. I see an awful lot of little Robespierres in this place.

But you're libertarians, and when you get to run your utopia you wouldn't fall prey to all the historic vices of all the other utopians who've come before you. You wouldn't loot private property in the name of 'liberty'. You wouldn't engage in the settling of ancient scores through the use of state violence. You wouldn't rewrite history in the pursuit of your own ends. You wouldn't oppress the people, and tell them you were setting them free. You wouldn't do any of these things. That you would not do so would run entirely contrary to the history of every single utopian movement that has ever been, from the Anabaptists of Munster to the Chinese Communist Party. I feel so much safer already.

The ancient Scottish regalities, such as the County of the Barony and Regality of Glasgow, had 'the power of pit and gallows'. Reading a lot of the rhetoric around here makes me one wonder how much longer it'll be before I end up in the Tolbooth.

A good jumping-off point for attempting to enlighten yourself out of ignorance would not be, as some might think, the Erskine Bridge; but instead working wout just why Burns felt it necessary to write the words,

"Bought and sold for English gold,
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!"

The answer is in, sigh...'The Isles', by Norman Davies.

Domhnall Ruigh an t-Sabhail said...

Well if the English are stupid enough to keep 'subsiding' us Jocks I say let them. It's their money. Let then waste it how they want.

As long as there's a union we'll keep lootin

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

AGB

Anonymous said...

ALL the North Sea Oil and Gas doesn't belong to Scotland ANYWAY! And it's a drop in the ocean compared to the years of subsidising and bailing out flowing from England to Scotland.

Mind you, according to some stuff I've been reading about the Shetland Isles, the majority of oil and gas Scotland does currently believe it owns might not legally belong by it!

Once England takes its rightful share and the Shetlands takes its rightful share, Scotland will not have as much to be delusional about...

Fascinating stuff...

Anonymous said...

Found On-line:

"Is North Sea Oil Owned By The Shetland Isles?

To answer this question you need to do some research into the history of Udal Law in Shetland. The Shetland and Orkney Udal Law group (SOUL) can be found on the Internet and highlights the main points of the argument.

Basically, although Shetland and Orkney are acknowledged as being under Scottish rule since the annexation, the annexation was not entirely legal. Shetland and Orkney were pledged as part of a dowry payment in 1468/9 with the understanding that sovereignty would not be handed over and the islands would be redeemed at a later date when the money could be raised.

The Scottish Crown was fly - even though the Danish/Norwegian Crown made several attempts to regain control of Shetland and Orkney, the Scottish Crown refused. Shetland was increasingly brought under Scottish rule and the issue of sovereignty was never fully addressed.

Under Udal law, outright ownership of land included the seabed - so if Shetland is still legally Scandinavian and Udal law has never been completely replaced, then the seabed around Shetland belongs to Shetland and not to Scotland.

North sea oil around the Shetland basin therefore belongs to Shetland and the Scottish Crown is well aware of this. To openly address the issue of Shetland's sovereignty is thus to make this public knowledge...and the British parliament wouldn't want that...now would they?"

Domhnall Ruigh an t-Sabhail said...

Have the Vikings made any recent claim to the Shetlands?

I'd rather live in a poor oil-less Scotland than a union with the Whinging Poms

Domhnall Ruigh an t-Sabhail said...

Funny how the Whinging Poms like to witter on about Shetland being 'annexed' by the Scots but conveniently forget to mention that prior to the 9th Century AD the Shetlands belonged to the Picts and their ancestors. In other words OUR ancestors.

We took them back

The Shetlands are no more Viking lands than my back garden ;o)

History as re-written by the pretendy Saxons

dr cromarty said...

History as re-written by the pretendy Saxons

Domnhnall Ruigh an t-Sabhail


Name as re-written by the pretendy Gael

Anonymous said...

Couldn't care less about who owns the oil/gas. This endless droning on about "Britain" gets up my nose.
They're in our politics, in our wallets and in our hair.
I just think its over. The spirit that made the UK, that is.

A pity. Being British was great and we did great things together but its over. Can't be patched up and shouldn't be.

England needs to get shot of Scotland for the good of both of us.

Anonymous said...

http://www.alba.org.uk/ Scroll down the left hand side to : Scotcing the Myth/ The Great Deception

Dònaidh said...

dr cromarty said...

"Domnhnall Ruigh an t-Sabhail

Name as re-written by the pretendy Gael"

Probably don't even know what a Gael is.

Feel free to give us all a laugh.... errr.... sorry a lesson on race and demographics ;o)

dr cromarty said...

I know a Plastic Paddy or a Mock Jock when I see one. And I'm looking at one right now.

Martin said...

Can Plastic Paddies and Mock Jocks dance the Anglo Tango?

Dònaidh said...

dr cromarty said...

"I know a Plastic Paddy or a Mock Jock when I see one. And I'm looking at one right now."

Just as I thought. All empty rhetoric and no substance.

Oh and NO you can't really see me (vivid imagination as well as delusional)

dr cromarty said...

All empty rhetoric and no substance.

This from a man whinging about pretendy Saxons. Pot kettle and black, Donny (I assume that's what your Mammy calls you).

Get along now, there's peat to dig and sheep to get into the barn. Oh, and keep an eye out for those redcoats.

Anonymous said...

England is occupied by the British state.

We need to be free of this millstone and their "Britain" and all the shackles that go with it

Dònaidh said...

dr cromarty said...

"All empty rhetoric and no substance.

This from a man whinging about pretendy Saxons. Pot kettle and black"

Well if you've nothing to add you may as well repeat what I've said. That's the great thing about the internet. I'll never meet an arsehole like you in real life ;o)

And what is a Mock Jock anyway?

Dònaidh said...

Anonymous said...

"England is occupied by the British state.

We need to be free of this millstone and their Britain"


HA HA HA HA HA HA Good one. Always someone elses fault eh?

dr cromarty said...

Always someone elses fault eh?

Like I said, Donny: pot; kettle; black

Dònaidh said...

Ah I get you. You're one of those fat loud mouthed sweaty bastards full of you own opinion but can't really debate anything. Did you have to get a computer cause all your 'friends' got sick of listening to you

Despite your name you're certainly no Scottish.

Unless you are one of those self-loathing Brit Jock Cunts from the West

dr cromarty said...

You're one of those fat loud mouthed sweaty bastards full of you own opinion but can't really debate anything.

I see the standard of your own debating skills is very high

Did you have to get a computer cause all your 'friends' got sick of listening to you

I might ask you the same question.

Despite your name you're certainly no Scottish.

Ah, yes, the 'No True Scotsman' argument - the tool of bullies and fascists.

Unless you are one of those self-loathing Brit Jock Cunts from the West

No, my father wore no sash of any colour.

Now, when are you going to start using your rapier-like wit and debating skills, Donny? Or are you you going to restrict yourself to foul-mouthad diatribes. ou really should keep off the Buckfast before you blog.