Thursday, October 02, 2008

Dave is not a libertarian – what a fucking surprise

Via Guido, I find David Cameron's speech rejecting libertarianism.
The first red line he drew was his repudiation of Libertarianism. This was deeply welcome to all those Tories who detest Brown's leviathan state and the daily intrusions into our freedoms - but have long been concerned at the "libertarian" label being slapped onto the party of Queen and country, of service and traditional communities, by swivel-eyed ideologues who are as hostile to true Toryism as are Marxists. Cameron reinforced this later when he said "We are not an anti-state party."

So, there we have it: could someone pass the news onto Jackart, please? Oh, and whilst you are about it, you might want to pass it on to Guido too?
Saturday, November 24, 2007

Cameron : "We are Libertarians"

Dave is in Prague this morning to address the party conference of ODS, the future European parliamentary partners of the Tories.

Come to think of it, you might want to tell Dave "Freedoooooooooooom" Cameron into the bargain. Because, to judge by the text of his speech cited by Guido, Spam has done some hard thinking over the last year or so.

After all, lines such as...
The battle for freedom and opportunity is never finally won. In each generation, those of us who believe in freedom, in human potential, in the idea that the strength of our society comes from the energy and industry and creativity of our people; those of us who believe in these things must be ready to fight for them because the enemies of freedom are never finally vanquished.

... or...
Today we can see the enemies of freedom preparing a renewed assault on our liberty. They do not mean to harm us. In fact, they mean to help us. But their ideas are out of date, their methods have failed and their advance must be derailed.

... or, most egregiously, this...
I am speaking of the politicians and public officials who believe that they know best how to organise our lives. That they are the experts, so they must have the power.

... might have led some people to believe that Dave was, in some way, opposed to state power.
You can find them everywhere – in my country, in your country and in the EU itself.

Yes, Dave: we can see them. And you are one of them, you opportunistic cunt, you.

But thank you too, Dave, for spelling it out so very fucking clearly: any libertarian member of the Tory Party is on a hiding to nothing.

I have long maintained that Spam is a fucking power-seeker, and nothing more. Sure, a Tory government will be less intrusive than NuLabour (probably) but I really wouldn't bet on it being significantly so.

The UK Libertarian Party leader, IanPJ, has eloquently fisked Cameron's speech over on the Libertarian Party weblog.
I feel sorry for those Conservatives who have spent so much time and effort trying to convince the Tory leader that the voting public in the UK are not just sick of NuLabour, but are also sick of the massive levels of state interference in their everyday lives.

I feel sorry for David Davis, who put his job on the line to make his point, I feel sorry for Dan Hannan and Douglas Carswell who only two weeks ago published what was essentially a Libertarian manifesto.

I feel sorry for them because now they have nowhere to go, no place in a Conservative government, not without backtracking on their convictions that is.

Quite. It is a sad day for those libertarian Conservatives who imagined that Dave might share some of their passion for freedom. Sorry, guys, but you've been mugged. Again.
Cameron tried to convince conference today that Libertarianism meant a free for all, when he said:
But freedom can too easily turn into the idea that we all have the right to do whatever we want, regardless of the effect on others. That is libertarian, not Conservative - and it is certainly not me.

For me, the most important word is responsibility. Personal responsibility. Professional responsibility. Civic responsibility. Corporate responsibility.

Cameron's speech is quite simply a disgusting distortion of the libertarian idea; it seems that Cameron, too, has no idea of the difference between "libertarian" and "libertine".

Nevertheless, it is the final nail in the coffin for those who believed that Cameron might harbour such ideals. Or maybe he still does. Who fucking knows? The man opens his mouth and the lies come pouring oh-so-plausibly out of his gob.

I should have seen it coming when, in his interview with Dale, David Davis said that he did not see himself as a libertarian (he then described what he believed in—and it sounded very libertarian indeed).
I could go on, about Schools, Families, Welfare, but there is little point. Cameron I must admit can give a good speech, all credit to him, but the content saddens me.

A Conservative government will unfortunately mean more of the same, state interference, big government, high taxes. This speech was about sugar coating, the same message in a new coat, nudging rather than 'in the face', tinkering with the presentation, but the message to the public is, unfortunately is the same.

Absolutely true. I know it and, if you are honest with yourself, you know it too.

Yes, I am equally aware that, at the next general election, the Conservatives will get in. Indeed, as my father constantly says, he "would vote for a Barbary ape just to get these Labour bastards out".
There has been little about the database state at this conference, Cameron did give an interview on radio today where he undertook to scrap the ID Cards, the NIR and the childrens database, but much like Osborne's financial promises, we know the EU wont let him.

He cannot scrap the surveillance, the cannot scrap the plethora of anti-terror laws, he cannot scrap the databases, he cannot scrap the tax rises, he cannot scrap the road charging from coming into force, he cannot stop the rot.

They may let him make changes to the window dressing, to put an acceptable face on it, because an EU directive is an EU directive not a request, and Dave of all people should know, does know, that because successive Conservative and Labour governments have now given away so much of our sovereignty, that unless he confronts the EU directly and takes us out of the union, he as a Conservative Prime Minister of the UK cannot really change a damn thing.

So, when five years of Cameron's Conservative government leads to no appreciable improvement, do feel free to vote for some real libertarians...

In the meantime, Cameron has heartily pissed me off; as such, your humble Devil is girding up his loins and preparing to give that cunt as much stick as I have given NuLabour.

Fresh meat!

27 comments:

TheFatBigot said...

I was somewhat troubled when Dave said he is not a libertarian, it seemed inconsistent with so many things he had said before. But then he defined what he meant and it was clear he did not mean libertarian in the sense it is used by you, Mr Kitchen.

The left is starting to take aim at libertarianism and, in the usual way, will try to paint it as something it is not. They will say it is all about greed and stamping on the poor. Dave had to distance himself from that for obvious political reasons.

His reticence to attack big government is another matter entirely.

Blue Eyes said...

Cameron, like many Conservatives, seems to believe that there is a role for the state in providing universal education and healthcare and trying to use the institutions of state to create a civilised society. He did not say he wanted a bigger state. He did not say he wanted no state. Conservatives are somewhere in the middle. Always have been always will be. Did you really ever think he was going to abandon taxes and government? Do you really think that the electorate would ever vote in a party which promised to do so?

Just because the Tories want a bigger state than you, doesn't mean they are socialists or fascists.

Ian B said...

Well, maybe we should take a little cheer from the fact that we're at least worrying enough to the bastards to be worth slagging off. I mean, not worrying exactly. But at least they've heard of us.

FATANDBALDANDMADASHELL said...

After an evening of too much Scottish malt, Question Time and This Week (God save us from Diane-fucking-Abbot), I have come to the considered conclusion, again, that this country is so full of self-centred imbeciles, completely incapable of abstract thought or rational debate, that any hope of us ever electing a government that makes any sense at all is wholly impractical.

The electorate do not want what is right, they don't want was is sensible, they want extra money in their pocket, an easy life and someone to blame when it all goes wrong.

How very depressing.

On that note.. hic.. I'm off to bed. G'night.

The ROV Monkey said...

As a member of the Libertarian Party, I know if I vote tory I'm not getting what I want but I do know I'm getting something better. After years of ZNL, that'll do for me.

lee jasper's fun boys said...

At this point, being ruled by anyone who did better for themselves that a 3rd in media studies (or equivalent thereof) would be a big step in the right direction.

NL is an object lesson in the promotion of inferior candidates at all levels of government and all levels of society. Tell me you haven't looked into the cold, dead eyes of an NL apartchik and felt a shudder. Is there anything they wouldn't shill "for the good of the party"? Anything at all?

The emerging surveillance state is nothing but (cold) civil war against the populace at large for monopoly rights of commercial exploitation.

Those gold plated pensions aren't going to defend themselves you know.

Guthrum said...

Posted on this, to quote Andrew Allison- Libertarian Conservative ' I cringed'

What University did call me Dave go to read PPE ?, he must have gone to the Dentist the day they 'did' Libertarianism or he should have put his hand up and say he did not understand.

So there we have it its purely Dave's turn to drive the Big Red Bus of State.

Jackart said...

I've already dealt with this...

kev g said...

I am a man after your old dad's heart, DK, but have never trusted Cameron, not least because his career path seems eerily similar to Mandelson's.

A policy wonk who has worked with Cameron passed on his two main conclusions, which also have the ring of truth.

1. He loses it under pressure.

2. Much like Blair, he believes that laws are things that apply to anyone but him.

Let's vote for him qua Barbary ape and then give him and the hydra-headed tyranny over which he presides no quarter.

Newmania said...

I like the balance , Libertarianism is only a think game , not for serious minded people like me

pond life said...

He does not want to frighten the sheeple by coming over all Dagny Taggart as we enter the next great depression. They want to know that everything will be alright because David will look after them.
Positioning himself as the great healer, one nation type Tory. Struck me as being politically savvy.

pagar said...

My MP recently sent me a pamphlet inviting me to let him know my concerns and dropping some strong hints as to what these might be. I ignored these and responded as follows

1) I am concerned that governments use populist fears whipped up by the national media to enact hasty and increasingly illiberal legislation. Violent crime has fallen significantly over the last fifteen years and to use the fear of it as a reason to impose restrictions on the general population is disingenuous. I am not concerned about violent teenagers- I am concerned that my son and three of his friends cannot meet peaceably without being moved on by the police.

2) I am concerned that governments use the fear of terrorism to enact hasty and increasingly illiberal legislation. I am more concerned that the state has assumed the power to imprison me for six weeks without charge than I am concerned about being a victim of terrorism.

3) I am concerned that our whole political system is being undermined by the widespread abuse of public funds by members of various parliaments and others.

4) I am concerned that the Public Sector now costs more than 50% of our GDP. This is far too much if we are to be competitive in world markets. In particular, I am concerned that the NHS is highly inefficient and that it’s cost is unsustainable in the long term.

5) I am concerned that the fear of environmental catastrophe is being manipulated by some clever and greedy people for their own purposes. I am concerned that the scientific predictions on the effects of global warming will prove as deeply flawed as were those on the consequences of CJD.

6) I am concerned at the way in which political parties seem to have no limit to the number or scale of social engineering projects they are willing to undertake. They seem to want to pass legislation that will interfere in my life by trying to modify my behaviour in some way. I am also concerned that my hard earned taxes are being spent by various authorities trying to tell me what is good for me through the medium of expensive advertising. I am concerned that your party does not seem to trust me to be able to live my life as I wish.


If enough of us communicated this kind of message to our elected representatives the message might eventually get through that the new political divide is not between right and left (there is only the centre) but between libertarians and statists.

Cameron has shown he doesn't understand this.

Kevin Boatang said...

Cameron isn't big state though is he? The next government may very well be Tory, and they will do as a progressive change for the better.

No, it won't be full blown libertarianism, but it is certainly not the control freak politics we have had to bend over and take for the last 11 years.

The next election is about realism: Tory or Labour. That's it, who do you pick? The Libertarians aren't going to come anywhere, harsh but true. One day hopefully they will and will have an impact on policy.

My biggest hope is that in order to sort the public finances Dave will cite 'tough decisions for yough times' and slash a large part of the welfare system that has exploded under Labour. Then he can get to work on streamlining the NHS and Whitehall.

The current cliamte is the perfect opportunity for a real shift.

P said...

"would vote for a Barbary ape just to get these Labour bastards out"

...a fair point, but the problem is that their genetically-proximate counsins, the Burberry Apes, will likely all vote for Labour under all circumstances.

call me dave said...

There was me thinking a Librarian ran a Library.

The Filthy Smoker said...

As frustrating as it is to see your old girlfriend with another man, you have to realise that she was never really yours.

The Tory party have never been - and will never be - a libertarian party. They lean closer towards us than those socialist fucks, naturally, but they inhabit a broader church and have a realistic chance of forming a government.

If a Libertarian Party candidate pops up in my area, I will unhesitatingly vote for them (otherwise it will be UKIP). But - and you'll hate this, DK - if there is a chance that my vote will mean the difference between the Tories getting in and Labour getting in, I will vote Tory. Because the Tories will, at worst, slow down our progression towards a police state, and because I hate those Labour fucks so very, very much.

Andrew Allison said...

As Guthrum said, I did cringe when I heard that. So did Croydonian sitting next to me. I know many libertarians in the Conservative Party. Cameron has to be careful not to alienate much of his base.

PS: It was good to meet up with you in Birmingham.

Old Holborn said...

Hold on a minute

Homosexuals represent 10% of the population yet they have managed to turn "society" on it's head.

Mulsims represent 10% of the UK population yet they have managed to turn society on it's head.

All I am asking is for the State to leave me alone.

All we need to do is be as vociferous as any other minority.

And I intend to be. If fat mongs in buggies can get wheelchair access to Snowdon and all the best parking spaces as a right, then the right to think and act as I feel should be enshrined.

Anonymous said...

I'm with Holborn. You can all sit around pissing and moaning and doing fuck all and it'll get you exactly what you deserve.

Hitler was something like the 50th member of the Nazi party and look whats those fuckers did.

Cause as much disruption and make as much noise as possible.

Give your views to everyone you meet and fuck the consequences. There are more of us than them, despite what they would have you think.

merrsh1

James Higham said...

Many have blogged to this effect.

V said...

I think this was the best news from the week.
The Tories are not Libertarians - so why not vote for the libertarians instead?

Our voting system is so biased anyway that regardless of who we all vote for, the Tories will get in, so why not use your next vote with your heart.

It is how the green idea managed to get such high on every political agenda - even though the greens never got an MP.

Think about it - this is a fantastic opportunity and it is all thanks to Tony Blue

Old Holborn said...

In the end, there are 60 million of us and 646 of them.

I intend to remind them at every single opportunity, that for all their blustering and pomposity, the people often DO take charge and ropes and lamp posts are plenty.

When the middle classes have nothing to lose and everything to gain, they will act.

ZNL have made sure that the underclasses have everything to lose and nothing to gain by questioning their masters. Cameron I suspect will change that by slashing the Lager and Scratchcard subsidies they receive to placate them each week.

I am also happy to accept that most do not want freedom, just two weeks a year in Lanzarote. They do not concern me. I am concerned with MY rights to think and act according to MY needs.

Anonymous said...

First get shut of "nu-labour", then give Cameron hell until he accepts his faulty view of OUR Country and our interest.
I notice he did not mention the looming energy crisis in his speech but did say "going green will make us richer", how he did not say. And he studied economics??

Anonymous said...

What can the EU actually do to punish the UK if we disobey their directives? If they fine us and we don't pay, what then?

Not Quite Hayek said...

Some thoughts...

From the first comment, about the left taking aim at libertarianism, I think we can begin to understand why. As has been discussed this week, the left- and in particular, Labour- just cannot 'do' the Internet and especially netroots campaigning and blogging. They're deeply concerned about the success of 'chaotic' order of what they perceive as right-wing blogging- and that includes the libertarians. I think I might be right in suggesting that libertarians, alongside classic liberals, represent a significant force amongst the right-wing blogs and communities (yeh, I know- some of you don't consider libertarianism as right-wing). So it is perfectly reasonable to assume that the left are willing to go full pelt in attacking 'libertarianism', as they treat it as the bulwark of right-wing blogging, rightly or wrongly. See how they often confuse Guido and DK as 'Tory bloggers'. There are, of course, quite a few libertarian Conservatives with blogs and act as commentators online. It is either a confused label or something more malicious, in the hope that tarring Tories with libertarians will cause some trouble.

So this brings me on to my second point...

2. Perhaps Dave is not as stupid as has been suggested. Perhaps he can see the potential for trouble with the 'libertarian' label being confused with Conservatives. For a man wanting to win the next election, he cannot afford to have Labour spinning that the Conservatives- however unlikely or untrue- are in bed with people who want to shut down the NHS and strip down the welfare state.

I disliked his comments and thought them rude, but I can perhaps understand why, if this is the case. Far-fetched? Maybe, but then we've lived in a decade of unusual and crafty spin, with lots of smoke and mirrors.

Like Osborne's comments about bankers and the City, they had to be made to arrest the potential for damaging accusations, however I do not for one moment think that they will bite the hand that feeds them in that instance.

pagar said...

Hayek

Excellent post. I remain sceptical about the view that Dave is a closet libertarian however I hope I'm wrong.

But the point about libertarian policies is that they are based on fundamental principles. Where those policies coincide with those of any of the traditional political parties, good and well.

But I would argue that libertarianism is essentially an anti-political creed and should generally be hostile to all traditional parties as well as governments and their bureaucracies.

Anonymous said...

Anything to get rid of the mental scotch cunt, and I don't care whether Dave's Libertarion, a Librarian, Conservative or a fascist - as long as that Kircaldy wanker fucks off & preferably blows his brains out. So shut the fuck up - YOU've got no chance of getting rid of him - so back CMD to do it for you - you prat