Friday, September 19, 2008

Wheeler dealing in the EU

As the EU fails to get the accounts for its £116 billion budget signed off for the 14th year running, Iain Dale berates Stuart Wheeler for pointing out a few home truths.
In the James Goldsmith Memorial Lecture [Wheeler] will urge people not to vote for the Conservatives in the European elections next June unless David Cameron commits to two pledges in his party's manifesto.

The two pledges he says the Conservatives must make are;
  1. A promise that if the Lisbon Treaty is not law when they come to power, they will hold a referendum on whether to withdraw UK ratification.

  2. A promise that if the Lisbon Treaty is law when they come to power, there will be an immediate, massive renegotiation of the UK's relationship with the EU. If the UK did not get what it wants, the UK should pull out of the Union altogether.

Wheeler must know that the first one is already Conservative Party policy, as is the first part of the second. He must also know that the Party will not commit to pulling out in the way that he suggests.

Well... Iain is being a little disingenuous here. The Conservative policy on the Lisbon Treaty is that they will call a referendum if the Treaty has not been ratified by all 27 countries. So what Stuart Wheeler is demanding actually gives the Tories rather more lee-way than Dave "Spam" Cameron has given himself.

That is, if you believe a word that Spam says—which I don't.

As for the second demand... well... the Treaties really aren't up for renegotiation. And if Dave wants to have a new relationship with the EU, fine; however, here's what will actually happen...
  1. The Conservatives will be elected.

  2. Dave will say that he would love to renegotiate with the EU, but NuLabour has left the country's finances in such a state that he must concentrate on the home front right now.

  3. Dave will ignore or sidestep those who point out that as long as we are part of the EU, all he can do is tinker at the edges. Spam will claim that, in these turbulent times, it would be "inappropriate" to risk the further economic upheaval (even if that upheaval would help him deal with the economy) that would be entailed by renegotiation. I guarantee that he will, at some point, invoke the "hard-working families of Britain, struggling to pay their electricity bills".

  4. Dave will also say that mending our "broken society" must be a priority but, seriously, he will renegotiate with the EU in the next Tory government.

  5. At the end of the new Tory government, the Lisbon Treaty will be in force, and absolutely no renegotiation will have taken place.

  6. In the EU Parliament, the Europhile MEPs who have been re-elected—thanks to Dave's scamming of the Tory MEP list (as clear an indication of his intentions as anything else)&,dash;will continue to push for more integration.

  7. If, as Iain Dale suggests, Dave appoints Ken "fat, evil cunt" Clarke as Chancellor, we will start negotiating Britain's entry to the Euro on the grounds that the weak pound makes it worthwhile and that the "Euro will bring the stability" that "the hard-working families of Britain, struggling to pay their electricity bills, so desperately need".

  8. If any opportunity should arise for said renegotiation, Dave will make some excuse along the lines of there not being the appetite in Britain for such a move; not, at least, whilst "hard-working families are struggling to pay their bills".

The only way, as I have argued before, actually to show Cameron and his collection of lying, statist Tory cunts that there is an appetite for withdrawal is to have as many people as possible vote for an anti-EU party in the Euro-elections—and since I would never advocate that anyone votes for the BNP, then I must urge you to vote for UKIP.

Let's be absolutely straight here: even if the Tories here are EU-sceptic (and that's a pretty fucking huge "if", by the way), the majority of the current MEPs—many of whom are top of their lists again—are most definitely not.

A lot of people in the Tories (and most in the Arsehole Faction in UKIP) think that MEPs go native when in Brussels: if you think that UKIP MEPs have been corrupted by the lovely moolah and the Communist-style brain-washing, just consider how fucking insane must be those who were EUphiles to start with.

No, show that massively-foreheaded fucker Cameron what you think of his dithering and shite: vote UKIP at the Euro-elections and maybe—just maybe—Spam will be given the courage to do the sensible thing and get us out of this lunatic, totalitarian organisation.

Because if you think that Dave is actually going to do fuck-all at present when he gets in, you are not only deeply naive but more than a wee bit stupid.

UPDATE: Iain objects to my assessment...
You misrepresent me. My point was that he overstates his role in the Tory Party. he hasn't donated for 5 years. And I objected to the fact that he was urging people to vote for a rival political party. On that basis he could be thrown out of the party. Would UKIP stand for someone urging people to vote Tory? I doubt it.

I doubt it too; thus it is fortuinate that the Libertarian Party does (because we are not standing in the EU-elections on principle). However, Iain, my point was really that you were being, both technically and generally, somewhat optimistic about Spam's promises. What Wheeler does is no concern of mine...


number 6 said...

My dear Diablo,

I agree wholeheartedly. Dave 'Boy Green' Cameron is as much up the areshole of the EU as Mandy and the Kinnocks, so that the sphincter must be stretched to bursting point with British politicians getting their bell ends in.

I debated this very point (well not in the metaphorical sense) with Mr J Redwood via the web on the UKIP/Con vote. His arguement was that UKIP would split the anti EU Con vote.He did concede the Dave would never advocate leaving the EU only 'reforming it.' Dave might as well try reforming the mafia if he thinks he has a chance there as these corrupt cunts will never leave the trough or their desire to control us all unless shot and dragged out feet first. Not that I would advocate such violence of course.

Hence, I will vote UKIP at national and Euro level as they are the only mainstream party that makes leaving the EU the central plank of their manifesto.

the shire said...

Sorry if you're friendly with him, but Dale is a fucking nob-end. He is an example of the degeneration of the Tories to a bunch of metropolitan knob jockeys who follow the blues like the dip-shitted liberati follow the reds. Look at his idiotic rag 'total politics'. Its a fucking lifestyle magazine for politicians! I hope he tries to get elected in my constituency again, the twat. The fact that he would propose Clarke after criticising Wheeler for straying from the party line shows he is nothing other than a party loyalist in love with the fashions and styles of the politico class. Fuck him, and fuck the fucking Tories.

Michael said...

What voters should do instead is work out who the marginal Tory candidate is on the lists and see what their position is.

In London for example, it is certain that the Tories will win three seats. The Tory candidate who might or might not win a seat is therefore the 4th placed candidate on the list, JP Floru.

Floru is a man of very sound politics. He organises the annual Freedom Week, where students are able to attend a week long conference in Cambridge on libertarianism. All students who attended this year were given a copy of Christopher Booker and Richard North's book on the history of the EU (which is incredibly critical of the EU).

This is just an example, if you live in a region where the marginal candidate is a dripping statist fool, then a UKIP vote may well be sensible. If on the other hand, the marginal Tory candidate in your region has the right sort of views, vote for his party, since a eurosceptic group of Tories are likely to do more good than UKIP.

Iain Dale said...

You misrepresent me. My point was that he overstates his role in the Tory Party. he hasn't donated for 5 years. And I objected to the fact that he was urging people to vote for a rival political party. On that basis he could be thrown out of the party. Would UKIp stand for someone urging people to vote Tory? I doubt it.

Anonymous said...

I'm terribly worried that you are right on the ball (I very much doubt no 7 but the rest I think you're pretty close to what will happen).

As a vehemently anti-labour voter, I reckon the Tories deserve one chance.

Vote for them at the next election, just to make sure we get rid of that twat Brown and his cronies.

Then see what happens. If Dave doesn't do what the country wants (cut tax abd beaurocracy, cut public spending, cut quangoes, cut most of Labours new laws) - then he should be hung drawn and quartered along with is colleagues. And we should start again. And if it comes to it I will definitely help out with this if required.


If there were remotely enough sensible intelligent people in the country that your libertarian party had the /slightest/ chance of getting even some seats then I would happily and definitely vote for you. But there aren't and you don't and so I won't, Sorry!

Old Holborn said...

Wheeler (and his money) would be welcome at the LPUK.

Cameron is just BlueLabour, itching to get his hands on the same level of State control that ZNL have built for themselves.

Cameron will NOT allow us, the little people, a referendum.

Or do you disagree Mrs Dale?

(I'm the hairy tramp from last nights QT and you are Harriet Harperson, OK?)

Iain Dale said...

I totally disagree.

Oxbridge Prat said...

So Iain, remind me, when are the tories leaving the EPP?

Just asking

Robin said...

Would you buy a secondhand car from Spiv Cameron ?
I would, so that I could take it round to Trading Standards and get him put away.

Old Holborn said...


Being a shrewd businessman, I need to know I have a backup plan in case Cameron is forced to change his mind.

"French MEP and close aide to President Sarkozy Alain Lamassoure has said that the French government fears that the longer a second Irish referendum is delayed, the greater the likelihood of the Treaty being scuppered by Britain under David Cameron's Conservatives, who have promised a referendum on the Treaty IF they arrive in power before it has been ratified by all member states. (Irish Times, 18 September)"

See the IF there? Time is running out. The EU KNOWS that the British will reject Lisbon and scupper the great plan. Cameron will not have a referendum because the EU will not allow it. They didn't allow Brown to have one, even though he promised us one and they are not going to let Cameron have one, even though he promised us one.

I am advising everyone to vote UKIP at the EU elections.


"Manifesto pledges are not subject to legitimate expectations",and that goes for all of the scum currently infesting westminster.Why the horror concerning the BNP?The majority of the English people share thier views completely,but owing to thought crime are unable to say so,and they could not be any worse than the aforementioned scum,unless one obtains all of thier information from the censored marxist media.

Dave said...

I voted against the Tories in 97 and that let NuLiebor in. I hate them with a vengeance.
It might say in the polls that Conservatives have twice the support of Labour, but that's only because there's no "none of the above" option.
So I won't vote for the main three parties ever again. Why? They lie. That's what they do.

Can I trust UKIP? Will there be a LPUK candidate in the next election?

All I know is that our choice is limited to choosing the curtains when someone else has decided we're moving house.
Choice? Don't make me laugh

Budgie said...

Oxbridge Prat said..."So Iain, remind me, when are the Tories leaving the EPP?"


Camoron made his promise - AND FAILED TO KEEP IT.

Pardon the shouting but 100% failure rate doesn't get my vote.

Moreover Camoron claims he will renegotiate. He clearly does not understand negotiations - you either have to give something or threaten to take something away. The rest of the EU won't capitulate out of the goodness of its heart.

xelent said...

An interesting synopsis Mr DK... I have this little theory I've been mulling around recently...

Generally most Uk govts have enjoyed being the sceptic, as its given them some extra Kudos points as far as the rest of Europe is concerned..

Thatcher enjoyed pushing them to the limits... And Blair enjoyed the bathing in glory he was given at the relief of Europe at last finding a friendly labour ally...

I have no doubt 'Spam' will enjoy some desperate Euros brown nosing him.. and giving him a large profile within the euro camp...

But you are dead right, he won’t make any sweeping changes... he will posture... But will secretly enjoy the hand shandy theta the rest of Europe will no doubt be giving him...

Shame.. but these are lying bastard politicians...

Long live anarchy!... (when it happens :-))


Profane language notwithstanding, I can't fault you here. Obviously you learned something of history and politics at Eton; as well as the language, of course.

And when we've voted for UKIP, and it's made no difference?

Old Holborn said...

Then you will see things you have never seen in this country before.

There are 646 of them. I repeat 646. And 60 million of us. I repeat, 60 MILLION. They would fill a community centre in Chingford. WE would fill 600 Wembleys. For every one of them, there are 92,879 of us.

They steadfastly refuse to acknowledge it, but they do not own us.

History is littered with crestfallen politicians who thought they knew best, some of them hanging from lamposts. Nothing in the 21st Century has convinced me anything has changed.

I put their chances at 92,879 to 1, frankly. And it's about time someone reminded them.

cookie said...

Iain Dale cosigned to the same cess-pit as the other revealed useful idiots.

xelent said...

Thats an excellent point Mr Holborn...

Anonymous said...

The smart thing for the Tories to do is hold a referendum immediately. As soon as possible after they take office.

If the voters accept the EU treaty the Tories are off the hook; the people have spoken.

If the vote is close they can readily say the matter requires study and not hasty action.

And if the voters reject the EU by a large margin the Tories will be able to deal with the EU from a position of strength.

I see no downside to a referendum for the Tories.

Personally I think the EU structure must bring slow disaster for the more prosperous and wealthy nations - if one can still give them the dignity of that title - in the union.

Budgie said...

Anon said: "if the voters reject the EU by a large margin the Tories will be able to deal with the EU from a position of strength."


What "strength" does it give Camoron exactly?

The EU took no notice of the French and Dutch "No" votes, why should they take any notice of British "No" votes?

I repeat, in any negotiation, for party A to obtain a concession from party B, then party A has to either give something up, or threaten to take something away.

Camoron cannot give anything to the EU, and he refuses to even threaten to leave. He has no carrot and no stick so his "negotiations" are doomed.

Mark Wadsworth said...

DK, excellent summary of Tory 'thinking'. But let's assume that they haven't pushed through an Irish "yes" by May 2010 (the revote is apparently pencilled in for Autumn), does this affect the likely sequence of events?

And for clarity, does the Arsehole Faction in UKIP mean IYHO that "UKIP is the Arsehole Faction" or that UKIP has an Arsehole- and a Non-Arsehole-Faction?

Devil's Kitchen said...


"And for clarity, does the Arsehole Faction in UKIP mean IYHO that "UKIP is the Arsehole Faction" or that UKIP has an Arsehole- and a Non-Arsehole-Faction?"

The latter, of course.


Mark Wadsworth said...

Thanks for clarification.