More UKIP infighting. Apparently.
Via Timmy, it seems that the Independent has picked up on some of the infighting in UKIP.
As Timmy points out, Andrew Edwards has little influence in the party and the sooner he fucks off to the BNP, the better frankly.
The kind of "effective leadership" that would actually ensure that Farage could remove you from the NEC, you mean? Seriously, arseholes like David Abbott sit about and complain that Farage rules the party as a dictator but is, apparently, still in office. Not a very effective dictatorship then, eh, David? You fucking tosser.
A quick reminder that David Abbott gave money to the BNP and then, when this was revealed (in yet another damaging press story), claimed that he had no idea what the BNP actually stood for. It seems that we must apply the Polly Conundrum to Dr Abbott, i.e. is he pig-ignorant or a lying piece of shit?
Indeed so, and therein lies the problem with UKIP—it's this schizophrenia that was the prime reason for my leaving the party.
You see, there are two parts to UKIP: there are those who want to leave the EU because they believe in free trade and minimal government—these libertarians include Nigel Farage and, of course, our classical liberal blogging friends, e.g. Timmy, Vindico, Mark Wadsworth.
Then, of course, there are those who want to leave from a nationalist point of view—because they view the EU as a construct of evil foreigners who wish to do Britain down. They are on a fairly broad spectrum, from the ultra-Conservative to the more extreme end; this latter group are very definitely potential BNP material. One can only assume that they joined UKIP to avoid the opprobrium that membership of the BNP would bring.
However, all of the conservative group despise the libertarians, who they perceive as being, at best, wishy-washy liberals and, at worst, actively dangerous lunatics. I mean, everyone knows that the legalisation of drugs is quite simply an evil policy, don't they?—one that will lead to our streets being awash with addicts intent on mugging decent, hard-working folk to feed their crack and crystal meth addiction. And we all know that free trade will lead to every person in Britain being slung out of a job and being replaced with darkies, do we not?
The problem for UKIP is that these two groups are unreconcilable. You will all know which side I favour and which side I think are stupid, pusillanimous cunts. Unfortunately, the latter group are extremely noisy and just will not shut the fuck up. And there are a lot of them.
The libertarian group—and those who are not actively opposed to the libertarians (mild conservatives, if you will)—continue, in the main, to hold the positions of power at present. But if they should ever be ousted, then UKIP could become a very ugly party indeed.
Let us hope that this does not happen, for I do retain a certain affection (and admiration) for those who lead this rag-tag bunch of people. Whatever the state of the party, I would also urge you to vote for UKIP at the Euro-elections: although The Huntsman disagrees, urging a Tory vote, he is absolutely wrong. If we wish the next Conservative government even to start negotiating a withdrawal, we need to show them that there is the wish and the will in this country to start such negotiations.
And, realistically, the only way to do that is to vote for withdrawal; and, because General Elections are decided on a great many issues other than the EU, the only real chance that we have to vote solely on this issue is at the Euro-elections. We need to send a message to our Lords and Masters in Westminster that there is popular support for withdrawal, and that they must stop swithering, take their balls in their hands and start the process of withdrawal: the only way to do that is to vote for the only credible party advocating such a move—UKIP.
At the same time, another plot to remove Mr Farage is being co-ordinated by the former Ukip member Andrew Edwards who was removed from the party after it emerged he had links to the BNP.
In January, he sent an email to friends saying, "Happy new year and damnation to the enemies of Britain and the British".
He confirmed yesterday that he wants Mr Farage removed, and named several other figures who believe Mr Farage is not taking a hard enough line on issues including immigration and who are moving against his leadership.
As Timmy points out, Andrew Edwards has little influence in the party and the sooner he fucks off to the BNP, the better frankly.
Then there is David Abbott, a member of Ukip's national executive committee (NEC), and former candidate in the European elections. He once donated money to the American Friends of the BNP (AFBNP).
Dr Abbott, whom Mr Farage has tried to remove from the NEC, said he was working for Mr Farage's removal from the leadership, saying "UKIP needs effective leadership".
The kind of "effective leadership" that would actually ensure that Farage could remove you from the NEC, you mean? Seriously, arseholes like David Abbott sit about and complain that Farage rules the party as a dictator but is, apparently, still in office. Not a very effective dictatorship then, eh, David? You fucking tosser.
A quick reminder that David Abbott gave money to the BNP and then, when this was revealed (in yet another damaging press story), claimed that he had no idea what the BNP actually stood for. It seems that we must apply the Polly Conundrum to Dr Abbott, i.e. is he pig-ignorant or a lying piece of shit?
Nick Griffin, the BNP leader, confirmed both Dr Abbott's donation – which he said was a one-off and on "free speech" grounds – and Mr Edwards' ever-closer involvement with the BNP. He said Mr Edwards regularly wrote for the BNP website, confirmed he was involved with the BNP while in Ukip and said that he "was with them and is now much more sympathetic to us".
He said Mr Edwards was "one of a number of people who joined Ukip in good faith and then found that it wasn't – and Nigel Farage in particular wasn't – what they had thought".
Indeed so, and therein lies the problem with UKIP—it's this schizophrenia that was the prime reason for my leaving the party.
You see, there are two parts to UKIP: there are those who want to leave the EU because they believe in free trade and minimal government—these libertarians include Nigel Farage and, of course, our classical liberal blogging friends, e.g. Timmy, Vindico, Mark Wadsworth.
Then, of course, there are those who want to leave from a nationalist point of view—because they view the EU as a construct of evil foreigners who wish to do Britain down. They are on a fairly broad spectrum, from the ultra-Conservative to the more extreme end; this latter group are very definitely potential BNP material. One can only assume that they joined UKIP to avoid the opprobrium that membership of the BNP would bring.
However, all of the conservative group despise the libertarians, who they perceive as being, at best, wishy-washy liberals and, at worst, actively dangerous lunatics. I mean, everyone knows that the legalisation of drugs is quite simply an evil policy, don't they?—one that will lead to our streets being awash with addicts intent on mugging decent, hard-working folk to feed their crack and crystal meth addiction. And we all know that free trade will lead to every person in Britain being slung out of a job and being replaced with darkies, do we not?
The problem for UKIP is that these two groups are unreconcilable. You will all know which side I favour and which side I think are stupid, pusillanimous cunts. Unfortunately, the latter group are extremely noisy and just will not shut the fuck up. And there are a lot of them.
The libertarian group—and those who are not actively opposed to the libertarians (mild conservatives, if you will)—continue, in the main, to hold the positions of power at present. But if they should ever be ousted, then UKIP could become a very ugly party indeed.
Let us hope that this does not happen, for I do retain a certain affection (and admiration) for those who lead this rag-tag bunch of people. Whatever the state of the party, I would also urge you to vote for UKIP at the Euro-elections: although The Huntsman disagrees, urging a Tory vote, he is absolutely wrong. If we wish the next Conservative government even to start negotiating a withdrawal, we need to show them that there is the wish and the will in this country to start such negotiations.
And, realistically, the only way to do that is to vote for withdrawal; and, because General Elections are decided on a great many issues other than the EU, the only real chance that we have to vote solely on this issue is at the Euro-elections. We need to send a message to our Lords and Masters in Westminster that there is popular support for withdrawal, and that they must stop swithering, take their balls in their hands and start the process of withdrawal: the only way to do that is to vote for the only credible party advocating such a move—UKIP.
Labels: EU, Fascist, libertarianism, mild irritation, musings, politics, UKIP
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18 Blogger Comments:
I repeat my comments from an earlier blog.
The problem is that neither in Britain or Europe do we have a Bill of Rights to protect the freedom of the individual from the imposition of oppressive law. In my view we have as much chance of getting this at EU level as we do at national level. There are some contributors to this blog who appear to be against the EU for rather grubby nationalistic reasons rather than because it is the generator of so much illiberal legislation.
Despite DK's fervent hope that the EU will "fuck off and die" I can confirm that it won't. But there must be like minded bloggers and libertarians throughout Europe who we can rally round to oppose those who wish to police our thoughts.
DK's comments on the motivations of the UKIP activists chime with this rather neatly. The problem is not European Government, it is unfettered government.
I'm not convinced a Bill of rights is adequate protection for individual freedoms. First, Britain has got one and it seems to be largely ignored, or perhaps treated by governments as a Buffet of Rights - the arrogant wankers pick what freedoms they think we can have like parents at a salad cart deciding that Jimmy can't have beetroot in case he drops it and stains his clothes. Secondly the Yanks have got a Bill of Rights too but they've also got a lot of very authoritarian laws, either because politicians have sold restriction of freedom on the dodgy grounds of safety and security, or because in spite of the admirable clarity (IMO) of the first ten Amendments various politicians and pressure groups have got lawyers and courts to agree that certain constitutional rights mean what they think they should mean.
I'm not saying that a Bill of Rights is worthless, just that it can't protect freedom on its own. It needs large numbers of citizens to exercise their rights regularly and publicly.
Why is such a fuss being made over this? It's nowhere near as bad as the open revolt in the Liebour Party or the quite public dislike of Camoron amongst grassroots Conswervatives. All I can say is, if the Indy thinks UKIP is worthy of a story this size then UKIP is obviously making more of an impact than everyone says they are.
I will still vote UKIP. The main three parties are sock puppets for the EU and the BNP are a bunch of fucking 'wogs out' skinhead morons, who now sport some nice Man at C&A suits instead of boots and braces.
I guess the Libertarian Party are just too small to pose a threat to attract moles, BNP black ops, and re-heated crap from the Independent.
I'd be happy to vote Libertarian in the GE - although I doubt there'll be a North Norfolk candidate next time. As it is, UKIP in the Euros is a perfect way to get the message across about the EU. I'm sure it's already had an effect on Tory policy - just look at how vital the votes they lost to UKIP were last time. The more it is made clear to them that those of us on the right/anti-statist side of politics won't vote Tory unless they stop pissing away our parents' democratic rights to the EU the more likely it is they'll shift to our point of view.
Nigel Farage is very good at his job: it is difficult to think of a better anti EU politician (Hannan? Helmer?). But ... he suffers from an inability to tolerate those who are even marginally different in political outlook from himself. This results in perpetual feuds within UKIP as Farage tries to unseat the latest "enemy within" who was previously the flavour of the month.
The joke is, of course, that there are more ex-UKIP members than actual UKIP members. Thousands have given up as people they respect have been harassed and back stabbed, for no apparent reason.
Although I do not support the English Democrats line on further weakening the UK, they are soundly anti EU, without being riven by infighting. We shall see some ED MEPs at the next euro elections and a reduction in UKIP MEP numbers.
My tired old blog UKIP Uncovered, which I rarely update these days, has in its archives much of the backgound to the UKIP problems with photographic links of why its leader Nigel Farage may well be fatally compromised through his own contacts and early activities within the party.
I believe it far too early to suggest a voting strategy for the next European MEP elections but my views may be followed on my newer blog "Ironies Too"
I admire much of the work undertaken by this blog ... thanks very colourful!
UKIP has always been a bizarre alliance of thinking Libertarians and the Colonel Blimp right, personal I would like to see the split come about to allow talents like Farage take on the Libertarian mantle, UKIP is far too associated with a single issue- Europe
I`ll vote UKIP because our establishment-mainly senior civil servants- cannot get any good deals out of it.
It`s what WE allow it(EU) to do to OURSELVES which is the biggest reason to leave it.
The BNP are not wanting to leave the EU because they loathe foreigners but because the EU ( and the North american Union, the Asian Union and the African Union )are part of a One World Commy Gulag.
The New World order For Dummies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRLPG_HplrA
Unplug yourself from the Matrix.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJYZNX_T5Ks
We are the Evil Empire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhvfCFCfdNk&feature=related
How come the BNP want to allow the Gurkas to settle here.
But, of course, the fact that there are two parts to UKIP is because it is trying to be a multiple issue political party. There are people on the left who want out, there are people in the centre who want out and there are people on the right who want out.
If UKIP continues to fashion itself as a party with views on all issues, these groups can never be reconciled. That is the fundamental flaw and it prevents people from uniting on this single issue.
Today, UKIP is in a sense trying to be the Conservative Party that wants out of the EU. This can only alienate those that do not have Conservative Party ideals.
UKIP needs to revert to single issue politics and concentrate on the EU elections only. Like the SNP, it could gain a majority if it did not confuse the electorate with other policies. Let it even be an umbrella organisation that Labour and Conservatives can join without worrying that they are signing up to other policies they cannot support.
As a former UKIP member and branch Chairman and (by way of identification) a friend of Sean Gabb's I think your analysis is correct to a point. However I do not share your confidence of Farage's intentions. I have for some years held that UKIP could not have been so spectacularly unsuccessful without this being by design. For years I have seen qualified and experienced people leave UKIP without any attempt by the leadership to dissuade them from their decisions makes for an uneasy conclusion that UKIP was designed to fail. The success of 2004 should have led to serious political engagement within the country. Instead it was as though we had elected clowns. The promises made were broken and men such as the impossibly named Tom Wise simply underscored that UKIP is just the same as all the other parties. So while you wish to encourage people to vote for UKIP in 2009, would it not be better to have a mass write in campaign whereby those of us who wish to leave the EU and make our own laws, state so clearly on the ballot papers? I think the Taxpayer's Alliance and the Libertarian Alliance could form a formidable block but no one in the European Parliament is of any relevance to us at all. Were the entire electorate to vote UKIP and send the MEPs to the EP this would not remove us from the EU. As long as the New World Order shill David Cameron is in charge of the Tory party there is no possibility of dealing with the EU problem through our Parliament which, apart from the streets, is the only place it will be done. So my instinct is that Farage purposely surrounded himself with those less capable than himself to ensure his position is secure. He has made no impact in the UK whatever apart from some stupid stunt with a tank outside Parliament. And the central issue of who governs us is avoided by the media because UKIP cannot engage with the media either. And to say the media is too powerful is given the lie by the success of Guido Fawkes and other political bloggers who have created such a stir that the BBC have HAD to take note. UKIP cannot be that inept, but a UKIP designed by the Tories to lance any opposition to their complacency (and in the case of Commie ron the duplicity over a post ratified Lisbon Treaty) over the EU does strike me as the reason UKIP has turning into UKRAP. I was inside UKIP for too long to miss the "deliberate mistakes" such as late delivered election materials, incompetence of the highest order and in the case of the money hosed into the Welsh Assembly elections and Ashford call center which went walkabout, I conclude at best fraud and at worst deliberate sabotage of a party which has had some of the most decent British people as members. The BNP meanwhile is old Labour, socialist, working class and will never achieve anything outside of the underclasses in the cities. There too an intelligent man presides over a party of his unequals. If Farage were a real leader he would call elections but elections in UKIP never actually work. It is a shame but the UK will probably leave the EU after the EU collapses and not through any political effort in Westminster, teh EP being a farce.
That's a fair summary I suppose. My welfare-simplification speech went down rather well at the conference yesterday, which is a good start.
They are getting scared of UKIP. The Establishment re the political class and the media they control are very concerned that the people are waking up!
All the people claiming the establishment are running scared might want to re-engage with reality. All the major parties are talking of further integration with europe and UKIP candidates consistently poll lower than the hilariously inept (and far-left)greens.
When your party is vying for seventh with such noteworthy groups as the Christian Voice Party you might want to call it a day.
Don't try to intellectualise UKIP. They are fruitcakes and you don't have the capacity.
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