Sunday, July 13, 2008

People are stupid #94,547

I suppose that it was only a matter of time, after the Redruth campaign, before national curfews were proposed. Not very much time, as Old Holborn pointed out in the comments.
A nationwide youth curfew to help combat knife crime was backed by the public and senior politicians last night.

Fucking hell.
In the strongest sign yet of the growing fear of violence on Britain’s streets, a Sunday Times poll reveals today that nine out of 10 parents would back legal restrictions on their children going out after dark.

So, nine out of ten parents admit that they have no control over their own children and would like to dragoon the state into bringing in blanket and arbitrary curfews backed by the force of the law instead.

You know what, parents? Fuck you.

Having a child is a lifestyle choice. We already pay you to have these fucking offspring—which is both insane and deeply wrong—and now you want the rest of us to pay, through the police and courts, because you fucking numpties cannot keep control of your offspring? Fuck you: fuck you right in the fucking eye.

You know what is wrong with this country: there are too many fucking lazy arseholes in it. The police in Redruth are so fucking lazy that they have imposed a crfew on everyone because they cannot be arsed to do any real policing, and the parents are too fucking lazy to control their kids and would thus like the rest of us to pay for it instead.

Fuck you and fuck your kids.
A report from a House of Commons committee will say this week that a national curfew on young teenagers could curb anti-social and violent behaviour. Keith Vaz, the Labour chairman of the home affairs select committee, said: “I have sympathy with the view that children should not be out after 9pm.”

I bet you do, you corrupt, cheap-suited authoritarian cuntbox. Fuck you too, Vaz.
This week the prime minister will seek to reassure worried voters with a package of measures, including:

—Forcing criminals caught carrying knives to visit accident and emergency wards to see the impact of knife wounds;

Are there not privacy issues? There you are, lying on a hospital bed in some crowded and miserable A&E Ward with a six inch knife sticking out of your chest, and the next thing you know you are surrounded by a group of gawping thugs. That's really going to help, isn't it?

Oh, and I bet that the nurses and doctors of A&E Wards are also thrilled at the thought of gangs of light-fingered, violent teenagers wandering through the place, nicking shit and generally getting in the way.

What a fucking brilliant idea, Gordon, you moron; it a fucking functioning A&E Ward, not a cocking educational trip out to a museum. Get knotted, you Scots tit.
—Removing the licences of pubs and clubs that fail to take measures such as searching customers for knives;

Yeah, once again even the politicians realise that the police are so fucking useless that they want bar staff to do the job instead, on pain of losing their jobs.

So, the pub staff will run the risk of fights and confrontations whilst the police sit in the fucking policestation with a warm, milky tea and wait for the people to come in and get a crime number so that they can claim on their rapidly-increasing insurance policies.

Once again, go fuck yourselves.
—Compelling young offenders to do community work on Friday and Saturday nights to prevent them from going out to cause more trouble;

Yes, let's force young offenders to do community work or, as I like to call it, let's use slave labour to try to repair those things that Labour has fucked up.

Welcome to freedom in Britain: all hail the return of slavery...
—Axing dozens of central government targets to reduce police red tape and allow officers to spend more time on the beat.

This is the only good suggestion and, as such, is inevitably the only one that will not actually come to pass.

God, I hate these people so very much.
The YouGov poll for The Sunday Times reveals a strong appetite for tougher measures to protect the public.

There was overwhelming support for an experimental curfew scheme to be extended throughout Britain.

Which just goes to show that the general public are fucking thick and deeply authoritarian. This is why democracy is incompatible with liberty: because the people of this country are authoritarian cunts who haven't got a fucking clue about freedom or those who died to secure that liberty for them.

What a hideous bunch of lazy, parasitical shits; the people who took part in this YouGov poll seem to be almost universally unable to take responsibility for their bastard offspring (although they are happy enough to take our tax money to pop yet more of them out). Have the British always been this selfish, stupid, authoritarian and greedy?

I fear that the answer may be in the affirmative.

I tell you what: those libertarian seasteads are looking more and more attractive...


Old Holborn said...

It had to happen.

The rest of us are next. If you have no legal business being out on the streets after midnight, you will be rounded up by fingermen.

Quite, quite remarkable. Something I never thought I would see in the UK. The State actually locking up innocent children in their houses under pain of DNA extraction. Simply stunning.

T said...

I agree with a lot of your post, Devil, but then it's easy to criticize and poke holes. Especially in Nu Labour's policies.

So how about some positivity? What would your Libertarian Party suggest instead?

Old Holborn said...

An effective Police force. Simple as that. That is, after all, the only true reason for any Government to exist. That and the protection of our borders.

nick m said...

I don't believe the "9/10 parents after dark schtick". I really wonder what exactly they asked. This is fear-mongering. This is peadogeddon all over again but, heh, if it means the State can get 'em young I can't see Bleary, Balls or the Millipedes objecting.

My wife and I set-up businesses that put bread and chees on the table and beer in the fridge. You know how? We didn't use any giovernment "initiatives" or any of that crap. We could have done but for a few quid (and neither of us needed much capital)we would have been lumbered with the so much red-tape and dead-wood we would have both ended up spending more time jumping through arbitary hoops than actually doing anything to the purpose.

I looked into it and was met by someone who had worked for the council all their lives and whilst knowing a little about being a sole-trader had no practical experience of actually doing it and less than zero about my trade.

They witter on endlessly about promoting "enterprise" but Christ - just let us free. Just fuck off will you already!

It doesn't work like that and indoctrinating kids into asking permission from Big Nanny before they do anything is the antithesis of enterprise. Moves such as this (and many more) are creating a generation who cannot even conceive of doing anything unless it's approved in triplicate by the tax-parasites.

Blue Eyes said...

DK I agree with all of this BUT I would like to know what "punishment" for law breaking you favour. Community service isn't slave labour it's a punishment supposed to be "more effective" (my arse) than prison. What's your preferred punishment/deterrent?

Guy Wheeler said...

Patrick Mercer, a Conservative member of the home affairs committee, said: “We can’t have one rule in one part of the country and another rule in another part. It is clearly something that has worked in Redruth and something we should consider nationally.”

The very same tit who campaigned for DD in Haltemprice & Howden.

nightjack said...

Not in my name.

The youths that we are bothered about don't do no steenkin curfew. Once again a policy that will only effect those we aren't worried about.

I say again, the blanket curfew is at odds with policing by consent unless there is a very good reason to curfew a particular area to deal with a very specific problem.

National curfew is lazy and it is cowardly policy and it will not address the problem. As for A&E tourism......fuckinell...just fuckinell.

If you want people to stop carrying weapons in public places then
a) Make the punishment heavy and arbitrary.
b) Free us to search people without the leg-iron of reasonable suspicion.

We do have a certain native ability to go to where the trouble is and deal with it but it helps if we can keep both eyes pointed forward all the time and not have to keep checking behind us for the political knife in the back every 10 seconds.

fi said...

I live in Cornwall, not Redruth mind, and I know a young lad who is an MYP who is kicking up a big stink about this.

He's not going to back down and has made it clear the police and council have a fight on their hands. The youngsters in Cornwall are not planning on sitting back and being fucked over.

fi said...

Oops, wrong place. This comment should have been further down under "Child Curfew's". I can't delete it so I shall move it.

chris said...

This is nothing more than house arrest for teenagers without trial. Not that I would be surprised if Labour doesn't come back with legislation for just this after the summer recess. They have a nasty track record when it comes to knee jerk authoritarianism because it looks popular. It wouldn't be the first time they have legislated for house arrest without trial either. Even if it where not despicable on the grounds of liberty it would be idiotic on the grounds of practicality. As with most liberty destroying measures only those that are not a problem will actually bother to obey it leaving only the nasty thugs out on the street.

Ian B said...

I'm surprised this has taken so long, Jack Straw was agitating for this years ago, even before Tony ascended to the purple if memory serves.

Well, it'll rapidly extend to a presumption that anyone out "after dark" must justify it to the police. And so liberty dies.

Oh, I got telephone polled a few weeks ago. It went on for well over half an hour, with a barrage of questions from a woman in India whose English was less than great, gabbling through her list. It seemed to be a range of surveys all mixed up, from stuff on the abortion limit to whether I thought Brown would win the next election to whether I'd like a particular phone contract- long lists of alternatives (it's hard to remember number 2 by the time you get to number 6, let alone reach a balanced judgement). Some of my answers were random, some were deliberate lies in an attempt to skew the results. I doubt these polls have any validity at all. But nobody cares about that I guess.

"Which would you prefer, a national curfew on teenagers or being stabbed to death?"

pagar said...

"the general public are fucking thick and deeply authoritarian"

Sadly, Devil, you are right. So what do we do about it?

One of the problems is that the public are led by the media like a horde of rats following a piper. I strongly suspect that current levels of knife crime are no greater than in the past but in the current frenzied atmosphere it's front page news every time someone cuts themselved shaving.

And then in a demonstration of shameless vote chasing, the government passes hasty illiberal legislation to try to cash in on the sentiment the media have whipped up.

Although I share virtually all of the Libertarian Party's views I have not joined yet prcisely because I'm not sure that inviting the "thick and deeply authoritarian" to vote for principle and liberty is necessarily a sensible way forward.

Having forums such as these to point out alternative thought processes is likely to be much more productive in the long run and it would be more sensible for the LP to forget about standing in by-elections (accepting that the traditional democratic process is authoritarian and outmoded).

Instead we should concentrate on using the internet to its full capacity to educate the thick and galvanise those UK citizens who are still capable of independent thought. Through these methods we could rapidly create a new kind of political force not tied to the past.

The LP should create itself as a virtual political party and I would join it if they'd have me.

Patrick said...


Yes its a sorry arse depressing picture...

I thought I had more to say, but DK... You said it all... :-(

John A said...

Yes, let's force young offenders to do community work or, as I like to call it, let's use slave labour to try to repair those things that Labour has fucked up.

Was it not you who also made the point that Nanny would be paying to have offenders "case the joint" with citizen money?

And yes, I would like to know the phrasing of the question[s] that led to 9-in-10 agreeing to a curfew. Somehow either "for other people's young thugs" or "for kiddies under 10 years old" seems in play.

Tactical Voter said...

It's easy to poke holes in blanket bans, knee jerk reactions and stupid government policies. For a very good reason. They're all bloody ridiculous and a trademark of bad governance.

leg-iron said...


If you want people to stop carrying weapons in public places then
a) Make the punishment heavy and arbitrary.
b) Free us to search people without the leg-iron of reasonable suspicion.

You called?

Seriously though. Define 'weapon'. A gun is a weapon, it has no other use. Someone might carry a knife for a million other reasons than fighting with it. on the other hand, if someone is wandering along the street carrying a battery-powered nailgun in a bag, wWould you have then arrested for it? Or would you presume they were off to do some legitimate nailing unless and until they shot someone with it? (Yes they have safety catches but those are easy to bypass).

That's where it gets into dangerous territory. The shelf-stacker on his way to work with a Stanley knife. The guy off for a woodland walk, whittling knife in pocket. The boy scout.

A knife isn't a weapon unless it's used as one. Neither is a hammer or a power drill. Or a poker, one of which I recently bought and sweated all the way home in case I saw a copper. I bought it for poking the fire, but would I be able to prove that if stopped and searched?

Your second point seems to suggest that anyone, at any time, can be stopped and searched with no suspicion attached. So I wouldn't be safe buying garden tools under that regime. I could even be locked up for having a screwdriver in my pocket. No bail, straight to jail, for the DIY criminal.

I hope I've misinterpreted your comment.

Snowolf said...

What is most aneurism enducingly annoying is that a curfew won't bloody work. Be honest, would you expect to see the police actually out on the streets to pick up curfew breakers? Of course not.

This policy just puts me in mind of the opening scene of V for Vendetta.

Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid. Of course it would eventually be extended to everybody. It is inviting violent revolution. Locking up kids in the home is one thing, you try to stop the population going out for a pint. . .

Old Holborn said...

This is serious. Very, very serious. The State is preparing to pass judgement and sentence on millions of innocent citizens without trial.

Governments should be afraid of their people, not the other way round.

This MUST be stopped

Carl Richardson said...

I wouldn’t be surprised if they proposed a license for carrying a knife.

Instead of the police using common sense to distinguish between a thug up to no good and a carpenter – they’d instead demand to see your papers. Of course, such a license wouldn’t come cheap and it’d certainly require yet another layer of bureaucracy. But look on the bright side it’d reduce unemployment!

In fact, why stop with knives?

The government are brilliant at catch all terms. 'Dangerous Item' perhaps?

It’ll be a nice little money earner for local councils.

nightjack said...

Ahh leg-iron,

As this is just a bit of knockabout fun and thank you for deploying "The Poor Gardener Argument v4.1"

There's the rub, what about the poor horticulturalist wandering to his allotment with his pruning knife or the unfortunate angler off to angle?

What indeed is there that can be done about the slew of gardeners and fishermen hauled daily through the courts under the current legislation?

Ad absurdam argument is very jolly and all that but if it is desirable to reduce the level of armed people out and about then please let us have a good general search power and lets stop having an angels on a pinhead argument about your poker.

We have generally bumbled along for many decades without criminalising the DIYers of the world, I doubt that is going to change much because there is some half decently written 1950's vintage law left on the statute books.

What do I mean by weapon? I like the 1953 vintage "any article made or adapted for use to causing injury to the person, or intended by the person having it with him for such use."
Cunningly the law provides and current CPS guidance provides that I have to prove your intention before you can be prosecuted.

For the blade I just have to find the blade but you have defences
# he had "good reason or lawful authority" for having the bladed or pointed article; or
# he had the article for use at work; or
# he had the article for religious reasons; or
# he had the article as part of a national costume

Again you can assert them and it is up us to rebut your assertion if there is evidence to rebut it.

God forbid we have any more law because to be fair the offensive weapon legislation actually does it all without the need for special knife law, but hey that's what those crazy legislators do.

Context is also very important and if I search you having seen you wandering the back alleys at 2am and you have a poker concealed about your person, you are coming in. If its 2pm at the windswept shopping centre and its in the Pokers R Us shopping bag then I am unlikely to even search you.

My opinion is still that I would like a general unconditional search power back as currently I need reasonable grounds which aren't allowed to include known previous behaviour. That's not a very reasonable restriction but its not like I don't have to re-chip every day anyway so no harm done.

Old Holborn said...

Where the fuck is David Davis?

Where is Geldof?

This really is the beginning of the end. We didn't have curfews during the second world war for fucks sake!

TheFatBigot said...

Opinion polls on something like this are worse than useless, the pattern always goes like this:

"Keep the yobbos off the street I say, my little Johnny isn't a yobbo so a curfew's a good idea. I vote for a curfew."

"The curfew will mean little Johnny can't be in the school play and you'll be punished if he sneaks out of his room for a quick fumble with Tracey down the road."

"Oh. Right. I'm all for a curfew for yobbos, I vote for a curfew for yobbos only not good boys like my Johnny."

"How do you know who is a yobbo?"

"It's the ones who use knives. I vote for a curfew for those who use knives."

And there we have it, the curfew then has public support only as a punishment for the guilty. Meanwhile the government and its rapidly jerking knees make complete arses of themselves (yet again).

no longer anonymous said...

"Compelling young offenders to do community work on Friday and Saturday nights to prevent them from going out to cause more trouble"

Can't see the problem with this, libertarians like Murray Rothbard et al have been in favour of restitution and forcing wrongdoers to atone for their crimes.

That aside though I agree the curfew is an absurd idea. I also find the 9/10 figure hard to believe. In the predominanly middle class town where I live with barely any crime I find it highly unlikely that even a slim majority of parents would want to stop their little darlings go out after 9.

leg-iron said...


Absurd arguments for absurd times, eh? We already have laws against 'assault with a deadly weapon' and laws against 'threatening behaviour' and so on, so as you say, no need for all these ultra-specific laws.

And yes, if I was to take my poker for an innocent constitutional along the back alleys, I would regard it as fair that pointed questions would come my way.

Perhaps a different comparison. Two youths, say. Both are scruffy and long-haired and both look pretty menacing. Each has a penknife. One is utterly harmless and uses his knife only to whittle sticks and pry stones from horses' hooves. The other uses his to gouge ornaments off cars and to threaten anyone who approaches him. Could you tell the difference between them, based only on a stop-and-search?

I was once a scruffy little oik of a teenager, before I became a scruffy little oik of an adult. I used to carry a penknife. Never threatened anyone with it, never stabbed anyone or even thought about stabbing anyone. Hardly ever used it, in fact. I had no worries about being stopped and searched by the police (never was) because my penknife wasn't illegal. Now it is. Now I'd be on the Emergency Ward trip just for having it.

Good reason or lawful authority - nope, just a penknife.
Work/religious/costume... nope. Just a penknife. No defence. No intention of using it to harm anyone, but no defence on any of those grounds. Guilty in the absence of proof of innocence. I wouldn't dare carry a penknife now. Not even a keyring-sized one.

You do say you'd have to prove intent. That sounds good, but doesn't tally with the Government line that anyone found with a knife is guilty of the crime of having a knife. That's the crime now. No intent required.

I'd like to see knife-weilding thugs off the street. Everyone would. I'd like to see the police have the power to stop and search those who they already know are dangerous criminals as well as those who look as if they might be about to become so.

But making it a crime to carry the knife, thus removing the requirement to prove intent, means anyone is up for grabs. Sure, if he's got a kitchen cleaver shoved down his tracksuit, it's a fair bet he's not out to carve whistles from twigs - but that's not what the law is aimed at.

It's a specific anti-knife law but not specific about the kind of knife, the kind of person carrying, nor about the context.

I'd rather see it left up to the police to decide who are the nutters and who are the mushroom collectors, rather than having blanket bans like this.

The criminals will ignore the bans anyway. They only inconvenience those who obey the law.

The Lakelander said...

As a matter of interest, does anyone know what percentage of the recent spate of stabbings have taken place before 9.00 pm?

Blue Eyes said...

Leg Iron:

It is not an offence to carry a knife. It is an offence to carry a knife without good reason (or lawful authority, etc. etc. as explained by NJ above). Admittedly, it is up to the carrier to prove they had a good reason to be carrying it.

Penknives (with blades of 3" or less) are excluded from this presumption so no need to worry about boy Scouts being run off the street.

Blue Eyes said...

Lakelander: I wondered that when I read the proposal for a blanket curfew - I'm sure that the "spate" this week in London mostly happened in mid afternoon.

Sabina said...

Put the miserable brats in boot camp and sterilize the parents. Oh, and STOP GIVING OUT TAX BREAKS AND WELFARE CHEQUES EVERY TIME SOME MORON REPRODUCES!!

Snowolf said...

'anyone found with a knife is guilty of the crime of having a knife. That's the crime now.'

Which is silly, really. Your earlier point about hammers, nail-guns, pokers et al is an interesting one, leg-iron. If not knives (which are just the current fashion) then what else?

I read elsewhere the very salient point that knives do not commit crime. The problem is of course that should the problem of twats with blades be sorted out, the twats would merely carry something else.

Of course a curfew won't solve the problem, if you don't care and are put up before the beak for breaking said curfew, I don't see the magistrate is going to take any serious action.

We have to solve the problem of twats, rather than the non-problem of knives. Knives are sleepy little things that do very little beyond sitting there.

'Something must be done, this is something, therefore it must be done.' - Sir Humphrey.

leg-iron said...

Blue eyes:
Penknives (with blades of 3" or less) are excluded from this presumption so no need to worry about boy Scouts being run off the street.

Are they? I didn't know that. The current hysteria makes we ordinary proles terrified to sharpen our pencils too well in case we get hauled up for having them.

Seriously. Whatever the law actually is, we on the street don't know about it. I said I was worried about carrying that poker home, and I was. Genuinely worried. It's easy for those who know the law to say 'don't be stupid' but we are now in terror of the police if we're moving anything sharp or heavy from A to B.

Boy scouts used to have sheath knives, not penknives. The scouts used to teach youngsters how to handle them safely and how to NOT use them in any way that could be considered threatening.

In my youth, I used to go hiking. No more, sadly, but it taught me independence at an early age. Can't give up and go home when you're fifty miles from anywhere. No curfew, so we could vanish for a week or more at a time. Every one of us had a sheath knife at our belt. Not one of us even considered threatening anyone. That's not the exception, that's the norm.

It won't be much fun hiking for tomorrow's youth - no knife, and you have to be home by 9 pm. But then, teaching them independence will likely be a crime soon anyway.

I'm neither politician nor policeman. I'm just a prole who can't keep up with the law. Nobody can. People call the police ifg someone takes a photo in a pbulic place. If you took out a 1" penknife in public, say to cut the plastic ties of some packaging, someone's going to call the police. The police are obliged to respond. They don't have the option of saying 'Don't be silly', even though they should be able to.

So the police turn up to check our camera or your knife, or whatever, and find you're not doing anything wrong. Well, you might say, there's no problem. Other than the slight issue that a perfectly innocent person, going about a perfectly legal activity, has just been stopped and questioned for no real reason.

Forget the logical politics and look at the world through the prole's eyes for a moment. Does that instil confidence in the police, or wariness of them? Remember, most of the people this is happening to are unaware hat what they were doing could be considered in any way illegal.

Nobody knows what is illegal and what's not any more. So we're all scared of the police because we don't know whether we're breaking a law at any point in time.

Maybe we're not all targets. But we all think we are. For labour, I guess that mission is accomplished.

Old Holborn said...

Ok, I'll drop the bomb.

Why are white middle class children in Swindon or York or villages near Melton Mowbray going to be under house arrest for the crimes of a few black kids in London?

Crack cocaine kills more teenagers than knives, FFS

24 (mostly) black kids have been stabbed to death this year in London. Why not suggest house arrest for all black teenagers? Would that be any more bigoted or unjust?

This is a test. It goes along the lines of:

"fuck it, it's out of control"

"yeah, yeah, we know that. Since teachers can't do a damn thing and parents are too busy trying to pay the mortgage or the new BMW bill/credit card payment to give a shit, this is where we are. Kids don't give a shit anymore. Nobody can tell them anything"

"What's the cheapest, fastest option?"

"Reintroduce discipline, respect, a work ethic, qualifications, ambition, a healthy respect for fellow citizens & society, adding value, distaste for crime, repulsion at violence"

"Nah, fuck it. Lock them all up as soon as it gets dark. Watch the crime figures tumble"

Perhaps we should issue under 18's with cloth badges they can sew on their coats?

leg-iron said...

Snowolf - good point.

If they can't carry knives, they'll carry hammers. Or just pick up rocks from the side of the road.

If the twats want to hurt someone, they'll do it no matter what gets banned.

But targeting the twats would be sensible, and labour don't 'do' sensible.

Carl Richardson said...

Reasonable suspicion should remain intact.

People don’t want to be harassed by some pumped up little Hitler on a power rush trying to meet his weekly search quota.

Old Holborn said...

Can we stop discussing knives?

This has NOTHING to do with knives. The Scots have THREE TIMES the rate of stabbings we have (and have had for years) yet nothing has ever been done there to curb it.

This is about control of the population. If I wanted to test the water regarding keeping people off the streets, who better to trial it on?

Teenagers. Not BLACK teenagers in London - who it applies to btw. Teenagers. Anywhere. If they buy it (and more importantly, their parents) then I can introduce a curfew for ANYTHING, ANYWHERE.

wow! All of you, get off the streets. The crazy 646 can tell 60,000,000 people to go indoors and shut the fuck up.

again. wow!

Carl Richardson said...

Looking at the law as it stands; the police already have the power under section 30(6) of the Anti-social Behaviour Act 2003 to remove a person between the hours of 9pm and 6am provided they’re under the age of 16. However, it can’t be used arbitrarily (R. (on the application of W) v Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis [2006] EWCA Civ 458). The young person must either be at risk of or be involved in anti-social behaviour.

Seems much better than a blanket ban (curfew) – although it requires the police to do some work – what a bummer...

TheFatBigot said...

Mr Richardson informs us "The young person must either be at risk of or be involved in anti-social behaviour."

And Mr Leg-Iron (he must be posh, he's hyphenated) gave us a hypothesis based on: "Two youths, say. Both are scruffy and long-haired and both look pretty menacing."

There you have it, it's easy. Long hair = either the child has not been brought up properly (at risk) or he's a thoroughgoing bad lot (anti-social).

Many years ago I represented people accused of carrying an offensive weapon (back in the old days before there were knife-specific offences). If they had long hair they were convicted, short hair led to an acquittal; pigmentation had no effect. The evidence is overwhelming.

nick m said...

This is about control at the deepest level. This is about the control and indoctrination of children. The State Schools long ago ceased to teach anything empowering. The National Curriculum literally starts at year 0 of a child's life. Kids are having nightmares following being "taught" about AGW but can't even read write or do algebra despite their GCSEs...

Now, they won't be able to go out and play. It is not aimed at the inner-city toughs. It is aimed at the middle-classes. It is designed to breed a generation who know that nothing good will happen for them unless they toe Big Nanny's line.

It's designed to create a generation who will be left open mouthed at any dissent from the "progressive" One True Path and stuttering, "B-B-But how can you do that? You haven't got permission!"

It would be easy to blame Labour (and I have in language which would impress DK) but it isn't just them is it. It's the media. It's non-governmental bodies, the judiciary, the Police, you, me, everyone.

Anonymous said...

Excellent ! The Police are now going to be running a free taxi service taking children home after 9pm !

Liz said...

As Gibbon observed about Athens, so it is also true of our once great democracy: "In the end, more than freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all – security, comfort, and freedom. When the Athenians finally wanted not to give to society but for society to give to them, when the freedom they wished for most was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free and was never free again."

silas said...

Old Holborn, my fears exactly.

We are monitored every time we step onto public transport, our cars/motor cycles/vans can be tracked by ANPR and CCTV.

Leaving the country takes longer and longer with more idiotic restrictions on what you can and cannot carry.

Now streets are being portrayed as being totally unsafe outside of the majority of people's working hours.

Stay in your houses. Do not involve yourself with the bigger picture. Fear for your own lives and belongings. Stay in your house.

As Bill Hicks said "The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your door, buy guns, close yourself off."

I've had enough, this country is fucked.

Bob said...

I live in SE London where black, gang-related violence is rife. Everyone, black or white, old or young is absolutely fed up with it. Everyone that is, except the criminals themselves, of course, and the usual dreary progressive liberal, self-loathing lefties who will tell you that it's all our fault that these crimes are happening.

This blanket curfew will suit the government and will suit the police, because if they were to clamp down hard on the kids actually carrying weapons and killing each other they would have to mainly target a certain section of London society, namely black kids.

If the cops arrest more blacks than whites they are 'institutionally racist'. If they get sent down, our criminal justice system is 'institutionally racist' too.

So let's a have a curfew. It won't stop any crime but at least no one gets offended, and that's the main thing.

Lord James Bigglesworth said...

DK, could you put me in touch with your anger management consultant? I need a top up.

Old Holborn said...

Apparently, it is due to poverty.

"But Ife Igunnubole, a youth worker in Hackney, London, said knives and guns brought a sense of power to youths who felt powerlessness.

He said: "There is a level of desperation on the streets, brought about by poverty, which is creating a culture of fear." "

How I laughed. Whatever happened to poor but honest?

Sacerdote said...

@leg-iron and blue eyes

The legislation about pen-knives is a little more specific than that. They must have a blade of less than 3", but must also not be capable of being locked open, which makes a lot of pen-knives actually illegal.

Old Holborn said...

Here we go

"He said stop and search powers would be increased, with more visible policing and 110,000 "problem" families with "disruptive young people" would be dealt with.

These are children who have either been excluded from school, been in trouble with the law OR IDENTIFIED as likely to be in trouble later on, Mr Brown said. "

Pardon? "Dealing with" future crime?

What an utter cunt. I hope he gets face cancer.

leg-iron said...

Sacerdote - interesting. Yet knives that don't lock open are able to close on your fingers, thus bringing them under Health and Safety's banner. Either way - gotcha.

Old Holborn - continual searchiing of kids who haven't done anything is the best way to make sure they turn out bad. If they're getting blamed for it anyway...

The Gorgon can't get cancer, unfortunately. He is cancer. The best we can hope for is that somewhere, there's a cure.

redandwhite said...

As usual you provide more humor than logic. Have you considered parents may have control over their own children but do not trust every other parent in their city?

pagar said...

"a Sunday Times poll reveals today that nine out of 10 parents would back legal restrictions on their children going out after dark"

Forget about knife crime and curfews- this is the really depressing part of the post.

90% of the population prefer safety to freedom. That is the real tragedy and we need to address how we shake them out of their comatose state.

Carl Richardson said...

Liberty will die to thunderous applause

Patrick said...

It's a filthy endictment of a govt that has given all the power to would be criminals.. and yet makes all children potential enemies of the state...

the reason we have such violence on the streets is endemic of the fact that we ALL have a gun pointed at our heads.. by the thugs in power...

How else is a kid meant to protect himself on the bad streets of London... Bearing in mind of course , that as adults we are big enough to avoid most of it... You bear a lot of fear as you walk around at night as a child, because your useless parents cant be bothered to give you some positive input in your life...

We are lost in a plague of stupidity that is run by a bunch of theiving cunts that tell us that its all good for us...

When will we wake up and realise that we are being conned... Please tell me soon...

Roger Thornhill said...

Knives don't kill people, people kill people. No knives and expect kickings, glassings and dogs set upon you. Violence will out.

10 years for using a knife? Yes. Carrying a knife? - any penalty is Guilty until proven innocent.

toothnclaw said...

The ever thickening sludge at the bottom of the national gene pool has sadly led to a massive superfluity of feral,be-hooded,violent, oxygen thieves.
Couldn`t we issue all of them with freshly sharpened steel and let Darwin sort `em out?

Death Mechanic said...

Curfew? Soft wazzocks. They should go the whole way and ban kids entirely, or at least have them genetically modified to have an "off" switch with a timer that only activates when they hit 25, and a self detonating sensor that detects IQ just in case. Who needs Darwin when you've got technology?

max the impaler said...

Couple of points: Best guess, 'curfew dodging' will become a great game for feral kids.Can you imagine the laughs generated by some desk-jocky bobby wobbling along after some 'free-running' kid.
Second point: as any unarmed combat instructer will demonstrate, a rolled up magazine can be lethal.
Its all a indicative of how lame todays thinking, and how only the few..most of them on these and similar blogs..are prepared to face the truth head on.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

"So, nine out of ten parents admit that they have no control over their own children and would like to dragoon the state into bringing in blanket and arbitrary curfews backed by the force of the law instead."
This is a Times poll. Their posh readers arn't afraid of their own kids, it's other peoples' kids they fear. Bet the Times is misquoting.
But you are right, and a curfew is another bloody silly idea from the people who brought you "marching to the cashpoint to pay on the spot fines"

Anonymous said...

'Daily Mail'article.
It must be Colonel Mustard in the library. How daft can these people get ?

FlipC said...

Kudos to the Sunday Times though for providing a link to the actual results. A giant survey of... 1,832 people woo hoo. Politically it seems tilted towards the Conservatives and the 'not telling you or none of the big three' voters (37% and 31% respectively).

The big joke is after the results of the curfew questions the survey asks about the government being too "morally neutral" or "politically correct" regarding personal responsibilities with over 80% agreeing they're not doing enough.

So the results show 'we' want the government to make us face up to our personal responsibilities... with increased policing and by imposing curfews on all our kids. Oh yes makes perfect sense.

Anonymous said...

Three years ago my son, known only as W from Richmond to protect his identity, took Richmond Police and the Metropolitan Police to the High Court over a curfew on under 16s in Richmond. The judge decided that the police could not cart under 16s around like a sack of potatoes if they were out after 9.00 at night. Now the police in Redruth seem to have found a way round the law by getting parents to "voluntarily" consent to their children being removed from the streets, with the threat of court orders or worse if they refuse to comply. So what is voluntary? Big brother comes to Britain... I would advise anyone who feels their civil liberties are threatened to contact Alex Gask at Liberty who was very helpful in piloting the "W from Richmond" case through the courts.