Friday, March 14, 2008

Doctors: still not getting it

Dr J Mengele, yesterday, said, "listen to doctors. We have your best interests at heart."

Politicians are pretty fucking awful; journos aren't much better. But what the fucking hell is it about doctors that makes them so bastard totalitarian?
People should be fined £100 for being drunk in public, even if they do not cause a nuisance, a leading medic says.

Plastic surgeon Peter Mahaffey told the British Medical Journal police should carry breathalysers and fine those three times over the drink-drive limit.
...

He said by imposing fines the message would soon get across that binge-drinking was not acceptable.

To whom is it unacceptable? To you? You want to rule people's lives according to your personal morals? That, sunshine, is what we call a dictatorship. And, as I have said before, we all know where that ends up.

Yes, people get hurt and do stupid things whilst they are drunk. But, as long as I harm nobody but myself, it is absolutely no fucking business of yours what state I'm in, OK?

I shall quote Bill Hicks, once again:
"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body—as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

Now listen up, shitface: you are no better than me and you have absolutely no right—no right at all—to tell me how much I should drink, in what timeframe I should drink it and what state I should be in, as long as I am harming or disturbing no one else. You think about that, Peter Mahaffey, and you shut your fucking face—you and all your illiberal doctor buddies.

Shut. The. Fuck. Up.

33 comments:

knirirr said...

But what the fucking hell is it about doctors that makes them so bastard totalitarian?

Perhaps it is because their relationship with all their patients is one where they have all the knowledge and wisdom, which may encourage some of them to act in a paternalist manner. I also suspect that it is worse for those who are paid by the state, since that would make the patient a supplicant rather than a customer.

Anonymous said...

Devil,

The Dr will see you now. Drop your pants he has a nice little 'injection' for you for daring to question his almightly power to dictate your behaviour.

There are plenty of piss artist and coke head quacks (I work in the NHS) and see it all so for anyone in the white coat to preach smacks of hypocrisy to put it mildly.

Steve T said...

I thought that it was already a crime to be drunk and disorderly. Is it being suggested that being drunk but not disorderly should bemade a crime?

FlipC said...

Like assault and battery, drunk and disorderly is in fact two charges. Just being drunk in public is already illegal and you can already be fined for it. Oh and before you blame anyone contemporary this law was introduced in 1872 as part of the Licensing Act (or 1903 if you're in Scotland)

Chris said...

How would you suggest drunkards are prevented from harming other people?

Serf said...

DK

You miss the key issue. He's a Plastic surgeon. Alcohol was designed to enable ugly people to get laid. Without it we'd all need our faces improved.

Unsworth said...

I am utterly pissed off with the 'professionals' of one field believing that they have the answers to questions in all other fields. It's the same with engineers and fucking architects - they all believe that because they have achieved the dizzy heights of academic 'success' (whatever the hell that is) in a speciality, they should be listened to when they pontificate about other matters.

These people - probably directly as a result of their years of concentrated study in one field - have total tunnel vision.

Just because they might be deemed 'clever' in one walk of life doesn't mean that they have a fucking clue when it comes down to anything else. They should have the sense and good grace to leave it to other 'professionals'.

Arrogant idiots.

Devil's Kitchen said...

Are you suggesting that all drunkards harm other people, chris? Or are you saying that we should just lock up everyone who we suspect might commit a crime at some point in the future?

Is receiving £100 fine going to make them more or less angry and thus more or less likely to take that anger out on someone else?

DK

Edland said...

If all drunks were locked up, there would be many, many doctors behind bars. The doctors I know are some of the heaviest drinkers of the lot. Just because they have an important day job doesn't mean they can take the moral highground.

Chris: I drink a lot (and have even been drunk in public from time to time) and yet strangely enough I have never hurt so much as a fly. Should I be locked up as an example to the thugs who roam the streets?

Neal Asher said...

When the BMA were proposing the smoking ban to government they also suggested people should be limited to two drinks in a pub. That would be this BMA:

"Just days after warning the population of the dangers of alcohol, it emerged the British Medical Association has asked for permission to open the bar at its central London headquarters earlier and close later."

What is the oath they take? THe hypocritical oath?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/25/nbooze225.xml

Edland said...

Maybe the medical profession did some sort of deal with the devil and agreed to promote the government's health-fascist agenda in return for their oh-so-generous contract?

The BMJ is good for a laugh when you want to know what the latest "line" is.

lost_nurse said...

"...as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

I'm not defending overbearing doctors (especially plastic surgeons), but only a fucking idiot would pretend that alcohol isn't a factor in the utter carnage that is friday night in A+E.

Anonymous said...

Well, you remember the old joke about what's the definition of a drunk? Answer: a man who drinks more than his doctor.

Anyway, how does your attitude to alcohol, i.e. if you're not harming another person by getting shitfaced it should be ok, square with your invective over the smoking ban? You're a bit of a fucking hypocrite if you ask me DK but then you knew that already, didn't you?

The average doctor is a useless fuckwit too. I should know, I was almost killed by one a number of years back when he accused me of being an alcoholic and completely ignored the fact that I had a fatal blood disorder. Nice, eh? And now we pay the bastards £100k+ pa for being condescending, hypocritical twats who mostly drink like fish and smoke like chimneys. Ain't life grand?

Devil's Kitchen said...

lost_nurse,

I am not pretending that. But you absolutely cannot punish someone because they might break the law. You must see that, surely?

Where on earth would it stop? Should we, for instance, prosecute doctors (or nurses) because there is a reasonable likelihood that, at some point in their career, they might make a mistake and kill or maim someone?

Sure, if someone does do harm, drag them through the courts and, if they are found guilty, absolutely fucking shit on them, but you cannot prosecute people for what they might do.

Like Ed, I have been horribly pissed in public. But I've never started a fight, never been a nuisance, and never ended up in A&E. Why the hell should I have a fine slapped on me?

DK

Anonymous said...

Go and drink as much as you want for as long as you want but don't show your face in A&E. And by the way, don't come back crying for help after 20 years of drinking asking the doctor to fix your liver.

Doctors advise people because they see first hand what happens when you drink or smoke or eat too much. Don't listen to them mate they are a stupid bunch of arrogant people.

And, by the way, I hope you have a private insurance which covers treatment for the short and long term of excessive drinking because the NHS really should look after people who did not harm themselves...real sick people who listen to DOCTORS!!!

Devil's Kitchen said...

"Anyway, how does your attitude to alcohol, i.e. if you're not harming another person by getting shitfaced it should be ok, square with your invective over the smoking ban?"

I don't see the hypocrisy in that, frankly. As I said to someone on another thread, show me the report that shows statistically significant deleterious health effects of second hand smoke.

I bet you can't.

From a personal point of view, I am ready to concede that pubs are not too bad (provided that they aren't too full of sweaty bastards) since the ban, and some have improved.

However, I would still have preferred to see, for instance, a licensing system rather than an outright ban.

It was the assault on property rights that exercised me (and various non-smokers too).

DK

Neal Asher said...

Just like so much with labour this seems like a "Ah, the MSM are ranting about binge drinking, so how can we turn this into revenue? Obviously we can't fine the drunken hoodies or the scum lying in city centre gutters because they won't have any money. Got to find a way to hit those who aren't losers, because usually they're the ones with a bit of cash. Ah, I know..."

lost_nurse said...

Why the hell should I have a fine slapped on me?

No argument from me, DK. You may well self-destruct in a responsible manner - but plenty don't. And the aftermath is ugly, and sometimes dangerous, to behold. The problem is real enough, whatever the pleasures of libertarian debate.

Invoking Mengele is going a bit far, imo. I don't recall nazi surgeons ever trying to pick bits of pint glass out of punters' faces.

Devil's Kitchen said...

"Go and drink as much as you want for as long as you want but don't show your face in A&E. And by the way, don't come back crying for help after 20 years of drinking asking the doctor to fix your liver."

You seem to forget that I pay for the NHS, as does every other taxpayer. Until that changes, I will use it for whatever I want, thank you very much.

"Doctors advise people because they see first hand what happens when you drink or smoke or eat too much. Don't listen to them mate they are a stupid bunch of arrogant people."

I don't mind them advising people. I have no problem with that at all. People should be advised and educated as to the deleterious effects of certain lifestyles: how else can they make an informed choice?

But if you cannot understand the basic difference between advice and legislation then I suggest that you go back to school.

"And, by the way, I hope you have a private insurance which covers treatment for the short and long term of excessive drinking..."

Yes, I do, thank you very much. And I have to pay for it on top of the money which I am forced to pay to the NHS.

"... because the NHS really should look after people who did not harm themselves...real sick people who listen to DOCTORS!!!"

Oh no, that was not why the NHS was set up. The NHS was set up to treat everybody. Universal health provision was the entire point of the NHS. I am forced to pay: you are forced to treat me: that's the way it works.

But I have no problem with people paying for the effects of their lifestyles: in fact, I welcome it (you might find that a financial incentive actually makes for healthier people).

But we do not have that option in the UK (unless you pay two lots of insurance) and that is hardly fair, is it?

DK

Devil's Kitchen said...

"You may well self-destruct in a responsible manner - but plenty don't. And the aftermath is ugly, and sometimes dangerous, to behold. The problem is real enough, whatever the pleasures of libertarian debate."

Indeed, I can well believe it. But fining those who are doing no harm is not going to help that situation.

To be honest, I don't know what will. However, taking these people to court and absolutely fucking crucifying them financially would help: target the violent drunks by slapping such massive fines on them -- and enforcing those fines -- that they can't afford to drink.

Oh, and giving them community service in an A&E department of a Friday and Saturday night might help (although, to be fair, it might not help you guys much)...

DK

lost_nurse said...

"Oh, and giving them community service in an A&E department..."

Indeed - something I would also advocate for NuLab Health Secretaries.

"Here's a mop..."

Maverick said...

Why should anyone get themselves fixed on the NHS when they know full well what they are doing could lead to future poor health or injury?

Playing sports, cycling, hang gliding, parachuting, eating incorrect foods, eating too much, drinking, smoking, standing on a chair without the proper precautions, picking up heavy objects in the wrong manner etc. Look you stupid cunts you know it's bad and could be dangerous but you keep on doing it don't you?

These types of people should all be taxed so that they stop doing anything that could possibly end up with them or others entering a hospital. Any act that is deemed foolhardy by the powers that be should be met with a fine or better still a beating in a dark alley, so that the stupid people get the message that it is not acceptable. It is for your own good – smile and be thankful we care for your wellbeing more than you do.

Umbongo said...

Slightly OT, DK, but the news that BT has appointed Patricia Hewitt to its board should cheer you up - virtue rewarded and all that kind of thing. Not that I would recommend any particular response but BT's just lost another customer - me.

Anonymous said...

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." CS Lewis

This is why the fucking bastards are relentless!

For what it's worth I reckon I know how to reduce the A&E casualties on Friday and Saturday nights.
* First, make 24 hour licensing a reality rather than a laughable slogan.
* Second, take the playstations, gyms and other creature comforts out of prisons.
* Third, build more jails and more courts so that delays are minimised and punishments fit crimes, not prison capacities.
* Fourth, abolish the NHS so people, and doctors, take patients' health more seriously.
* Fifth, cut/remove benefits and taxes, so fewer adults will feel humiliated and infantilised and will behave more responsibly.

(Rory Meakin)

Tim Almond said...

lost_nurse,


I'm not defending overbearing doctors (especially plastic surgeons), but only a fucking idiot would pretend that alcohol isn't a factor in the utter carnage that is friday night in A+E.


Drinkers pay far more in alcohol taxes than they cost the NHS. So, what's your problem?

I'd like to think you'd be grateful that they keep you in work.

lost_nurse said...

So, what's your problem?

Dunno mate - maybe ask the next paramedic you see working the friday shift, in any large city centre.

You pay tax on the drink. It doesn't entitle you to deal out facial injuries.

Anonymous said...

"What business is it of yours...who I f***...as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

To make sense, shouldn't that be "what I f***"? Or maybe, "who I harm, as long as I do not f*** another human being on this planet?"

- I still don't get why libertarians are hung up about causing harm? It seems such an arbitrary limit on freedom? Any theories? Or is it just tacit acceptance of a Mexican stand-off?

Rob said...

"You pay tax on the drink. It doesn't entitle you to deal out facial injuries."

Do you have proof that he has? I imagine he hasn't. I haven't. None of my friends have either.

Look, you can crack down as much as you want on the middle classes drinking, it won't solve a damn thing. The same scum will still get drunk and try to kill each other, and there is nothing the government can or will do to stop that. taking it out on the normal people who drink, the safe and easy targets, won't solve anything but will make the usual suspects feel better, and raise shitloads of cash to fund their jobs.

Rory Meakin said...

"You pay tax on the drink. It doesn't entitle you to deal out facial injuries."

Quite right. But presumably most people who 'deal out' these 'facial injuries' deal them to someone else? If someone smashes my face in because I am drunk and seem like an easy target to some scumbag - that means I shouldn't be treated by the NHS I am forced to pay for?

Or does this only apply if it's me who causes my 'facial injury' - presumably by some accident? Should Accident & Emergencies refuse to treat people who have accidents? Or perhaps only people who were drunk when they had an accident?

the A&E Charge Nurse said...

Clockwork Orange, Devil, Clockwork Orange.

A man who is not free to choose, even if he chooses evil, is not fully human.

You may remember Ludovico's 'reprogramming' technique is offered to young Alex, after he, aided by his murderous droogs, commit an appauling crime (murder) while they are all high on 'moloko-plus'.

Surely, the reprogramming of our vicious anti-hero is the logical end point of the perverted medical sensibility you seem so opposed to ?

Vasey said...

They've already started grabbing drunks in Hartlepool. Hell, they don't even need to be actually drunk, just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Tried to chuck my brother in the back of the van and fine him when he was walking home one night (he'd had two cans of lager, but when you're well over six foot tall and weigh a good sixteen/seventeen stone that's not gonna do much). Bastards gave up and let him go when he threatened to get a solicitor onto them, though, which I think shows where their interests really were: revenue generation. Also, can't forget the comedy element of their totally ignoring the gang of underage drinkers knocking back their litre of white lightening across the road at the same time because, by their own admission, it would be too much trouble to deal with.

We really do get the best bobbies in good old Hartlepool.

Phil said...

DK Said: "You seem to forget that I pay for the NHS, as does every other taxpayer. Until that changes, I will use it for whatever I want, thank you very much."

The NHS was conceived in an atmosphere of post-war cooperation when people gave a shit about other people, when there was such a thing as society. Now there isn't. Now there are just shits like yourself and the "dole scroungers" who you malign. People who don't give a fuck about the common good, just what they can get out of it. What you don't see is that you and the Vicky Pollards are the same.

I pay for the houses of Parliament, as does every other taxpayer. Until that changes, I demand the right to take a shit in the lobby because that's what I want.

Devil's Kitchen said...

"The NHS was conceived in an atmosphere of post-war cooperation when people gave a shit about other people, when there was such a thing as society. Now there isn't."

Don't be so naive: if there was such a wonderful co-operative society, we wouldn't have needed the government to force people to support everyone else.

"Now there are just shits like yourself and the "dole scroungers" who you malign. People who don't give a fuck about the common good, just what they can get out of it."

Which is why, of course, I have private medical insurance and private unemployment insurance and a private pension.

But yes, I am just here to see what I can get out of the system that I have paid into for 10 years and taken nothing out of except two visits to a GP.

You fucking moron.

DK