Monday, December 31, 2007

Vacillation? Not Spam!

Via EU Referendum, David Cameron has been talking about the Lisbon Treaty EU Constitution.
David Cameron has given the strongest signal yet that the Conservatives would consider holding a post-ratification referendum on the controversial EU Reform Treaty.

Well, good for Dave! That is a relief!

Next week, Dave might consider possibly thinking about maybe looking at the options that could be contemplated around some issues of major political themes.

If he deems it necessary, he may even cogitate on the advisability of taking a particular action, if the consultations seem warrant it—and, of course, if the Ares is sucking nipples in the house of Gemini...

8 comments:

Grahnlaw said...

Why a referendum on a specific amending Treaty, if it is already ratified?

It is difficult to imagine that an updated set of Treaties would apply to all the member states except one, which revert to an earlier state of affairs.

The Treaty of Lisbon, if in force at the time, has a provision on secession, in case a member state wants to leave the European Union.

Jackart said...

When are you going to admit that DC is basically singing off the right songsheet. Perhaps not as loudly and clearly as we would like, but perhaps in the ear of the electorate, more tunefully?

Devil's Kitchen said...

Oh, I will one of these days, old chap: certainly, the last few months have seen him making the right sort of noises.

And then we can have a party...

DK

Anonymous said...

You've hit the nail on the head with this post!

anthonynorth said...

I so love decisiveness in a politician.

Budgie said...

grahnlaw said: "The Treaty of Lisbon, if in force at the time, has a provision on secession, in case a member state wants to leave the European Union."

This provision actually restricts our ability to leave the EU.

We can currently (pre Lisbon) leave the EU at any time by repealing the 1972 European Communities Act, in our own Parliament, at a time of our own choosing, without consulting the rest of the EU.

By contrast the Lisbon provision (exactly the same as the EU Constitution) only allows us to ask to leave. The rest of the EU then decides what conditions to apply to us, without the UK being present at the negotiations.

In fact the EU could lay down such conditions that it would be extremely difficult to leave.

Grahnlaw said...

Budgie, so this is your reading of the sanctity of international treaties?

I don't contest the right of a member state to leave the European Union, but the Treaty has to be revoked and the EU informed.

There are rights and obligations, time-frames, future relations etc. to negotiate (hopefully in an orderly manner). The Lisbon Treaty just sets up the modalities, without imposing further restrictions than dictated by necessity.

But the interesting question was: What would happen if the last Treaty (already in force) would be revoked by one member state?

That question rises from Cameron's wording that the UK would hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty even after it had entered into force, not on outright secession.

Do you see the difference?

Budgie said...

grahnlaw,
International treaties do not have "sanctity".

An independent nation signs up to an international treaty, or not, just as it chooses. Having signed up it must accept the benefits and obligations until it chooses to repeal its acquiescence.

The fact is the UK has the legal right to repeal the 1972 European Communities Act in our own parliament when we decide, not the EU.

The new EU constitution brought in by the Lisbon treaty removes that right. It does not "give" us anything.

Unfortunately if we ratify the Lisbon treaty I suspect we will be legally trapped in the EU until it collapses, because the EU needs our cash. We could even end up with EU troops in the UK to prevent the local government at Westminster from repealing a treaty, or leaving.