Wednesday, November 21, 2007

Scuppering ID Cards

A goodly number of bloggers have pointed out that this data loss fuck up by HMRC indicates that the government is incapable of doing anything right, and do you trust 'em to implement ID Cards?

Do I trust them to implement ID Cards? No, of course not: they will utterly fuck it up and when, if ever, the cards and the database are put together the state will, no doubt, lay that information wide open. Identity fraud will become a common way of life: we'll all sit around stealing everyone else's ID just for fun.

But do I think that this particular fuck up is going to stop these cunts going ahead and attempting to bring in the ID Cards anyway? No, of course not.

NuLabour do not like history and they sure as hell are not going to learn from it. Every massive IT project that goes tits up is like water off a duck's back to them: the bastards just tell us that it will be different next time and proceed with the next useless white elephant.

God, I hate them, but I just cannot summon up the energy to excoriate them: nothing that anyone says makes any fucking difference so what's the damn point?


vervet said...

DK: "God, I hate them, but I just cannot summon up the energy to excoriate them: nothing that anyone says makes any fucking difference so what's the damn point?"

This sounds bad DK ... I hope you're not losing the will to blog ?

bookdrunk said...

Actually, my exact first thought when I sat down to write this morning was "how will this display of incompetence be used to argue in favour of ID cards?"

Ian said...

bookdrunk: Believe it or not Unity of Ministry of Truth has gone and done exactly that on Liberal Conspiracy this afternoon.

"And to kill off another myth that’s rapidly circulating, no this does not mark the end of the Identity Cards project either...From a pure data security standpoint, there is better ‘argument’ for pressing ahead with a ‘clean’ NIR system than an incident in which another key data system, the National Insurance Number, could be compromised on such a massive scale. If these CDs have got out ‘in the wild’ then one of corrective measures the government should take is to issue new NI numbers to all affected individuals, and its but a short step from there to the suggestion that the National Identity Registration Number should replace in the NI number, which is precisely where things will be heading over time in any case."

OK, I think actually rather than advocating this himself (he says later on that "we may actually need a national identity system…just not the one that the current government are seeking to implement.") he is suggesting that this is how the Government will spin it - by saying that the NIR will increase security and prevent information being so vulnerable in the future.

Of course, this is an awful argument (it would merely provide an SPOF (Single Point Of Failure) - not a good thing at all in data security terms) and one less cynical than you and I might think the Government would have the decency not to use it.

Fat chance. Again from Unity's post, Chancellor Darling has already "defended the government’s plans to introduce ID cards [and] said that without the protection of the scheme, information was more vulnerable than it should be.".

These sorts of idiotic arguments have to be countered everywhere they pop up. If they tell these lies loud enough and often enough, unfortunately people will believe them.

Budgie said...

The Tories have attacked Brown on the loss of Child Benefit data. This is a political mistake. Darling was more vulnerable (more junior; Northern Rock). Brown will survive. If the disks are found, he will rebound.

Unfortunately I think the only policy Brown has, is utmost stubbornness. So he will keep ID cards despite the evidence and the costs. He doesn't give a toss for civil liberties.

verity said...

Budgie - I don't agree that Brown doesn't give a toss for civil liberties. He hates them.

Although I think this elephantine - but not as smart as a real elephant - government will lumber forward with the ID card scheme, the people themselves may stop it. After this, I cannot see anyone cooperating with the government on it, and I think there might be enough grass roots opposition to kill it. If an MP is told by 30,000 constituent - by demonstrations, letters, emails, letters to the local papers, phone calls "Drop it, creep, or you've lost my vote", they'll drop it.

Roger Thornhill said...

If the official line is that this justifies the need for a "clean" NIR, then the intentional "loss" of the data moves from "Hatstand" to "possible".

Anonymous said...

So, national databases with personal details - including banking - are a bad idea?

Ermm... like that needed to administer a CBI?

Budgie said...

Verity said: "Budgie - I don't agree that Brown doesn't give a toss for civil liberties. He hates them." - - I stand corrected!

I hope Verity is right about grass roots opposition, but ... New Labour always seems to get away with it. The media swallow the deceit and spin. Nothing changes.

I thought Labour had junked a "clean" NIR (ref Roger), because combining existing DBs would be cheaper?

wonderfulforhisage said...

Budgie, the media doesn't swallow the deceit and spin; it's part of it.

There is a fairly common science fiction plot which has humans invaded mentally by aliens. Actually this isn't so much fiction as a metaphor.

I would argue that a conspiracy of Marxists infiltrated the education system at all levels half a century ago with the long term strategy of invading, in turn, the intellect of the leaders of the future. One has only to look at the political persuasion of many, many, academics in universities and teacher training establishments in the fifties sixties and seventies to realise why I make this accusation.

Now the fruits of their conspiracy are ripening on the bough. And the fruit is what Peter Oborne terms 'The Political Class' which includes what I would call 'The Media Class'.

The behaviour of these programmed zombies is designed to sacrifice the individual in the service of the community/commune/communism.

And these poor sods don't even know they have been invaded by an alien way of being.

From Magna Carta to WW11 to this. You've got to take your hat off to the conspirators.

Britains never, never, never shall be slaves?

Bah Humbug.

Back door revolution; that's what it is. Makes me wish I were French. At least they still have a will to resist - however misguided. (My God, I hope I haven't been invaded by a frog).

Anonymous said...

Who wants their medical records uploaded to the NHS "Spine"? Hmmm...

Shug Niggurath said...

Well remember, we can now prepare for a massive show of civil disobedience, the real fight about ID cards began yesterday - refuse them , refuse to obey them and let them take us ALL to court, by the thousand.

Fuck them I wouldn't even give them 50p. This shocker has made my mind up, I simply wont go quietly now, I pretended I wouldn't before, but probably would have just for the easy life, they'll fuckin jail me before I trust them ever again.

Get it up them.

Budgie said...

To Shug ...
The penalties for disobeying the NIR requirements are civil, not criminal. Labour was very cunning. They will take your savings/car/house before gaoling you. They were very careful not to let martyrs be created easily. Most people will capitulate at the first £1000 fine (and I don't blame them). Whoever resists will have to have given away all their worldly goods first.

verity said...

Budgie - Whoever resists should sell their home and get the hell out of Britain as it is the Soviet Bloc redux, but with better cars and more choice in the supermarkets. But the citizen has no strength at all.

Wonderful for His Age nails it,when he says the toxins began forming half a century ago,although these Trotskyite/Marxist ideas had begun to find favour in fashionable English drawing rooms in the Twenties and some of them propelled this programme forward. Bertrand Russell and his ilk.

And yes, the Trots were cunning enough to concentrate on "teacher training" colleges to infiltrate the "child oriented" programmes where learning has now eventually reached the stage of being discounted altogether. You can get an A-Level in English without being able to actually write, or understand, a complex sentence. And the same with math and science. It would be "unfair" to withhold marks from you just because you weren't up to the task, as it would "label you for life".

So now, the state school system has large numbers of passive little people who have been infused with a high sense of self-regard throughout their school years without having been put to the trouble of actually learning anything. And then they go on - purposely kept out of the labour market - to earn a worthless degree that will never get them employment because they can't read or write.

This has been a cunning and clever programme over the last 40 or 0 years - each generation getting just that little bit less educated than the one before. If you look back, you can see the destruction began after they began "teachers training colleges". As far I can see, this was a freestanding credential and didn't require a degree.

Ironic. All these people with "teachers training" (since graduated to a degree course, if I'm not wrong) qualifications were set on the long road to creating a generation who are now taking meaningless "degree" courses that will never qualify them for a job over Real Nappy Coordinator.

The Trots had a strange fascination for the British upper classes (as they then were). I wonder why.

Budgie - That's terrifying. God the marxists are cunning. I wonder why they hate their country so much.

genghis pinko-khan said...

My sister wanted a career in teaching in the 70's and attended a Teacher's Training College.

She packed it in after one term.

She described the people attending as:

'slobs, left-wing parasites and many are communists...'

The actual lecturers themselves were 'bearded lefties with a hatred of the middle classes...'

She abandoned the idea of becoming a teacher.

You are right, Wonderfulforhisage and Verity. It is also interesting to check out the courses which are offered to students at universities today. I am told there is one university offering a degree in 'Golf Course Management'. A quick look at the courses on London university disclose that you can get a degree in 'Citizenship Education', that is a certificate for the teaching of citizenship.

Give me a break.

Vicola said...

I hate them, I genuinely, really, truly cannot stand this bunch of lying incompetants and wish they would all just fuck off. In days gone by politicians had the good grace to cover up the fact that they were shit at their job because if they didn't and it came to light then the PM would have to ask them to resign. This lot don't bother because being shit and corrupt isn't a problem in NuLabour, in fact it's encouraged. I'm also pig sick of hearing from them that whatever is wrong is the fault of the Tories because they were crap. Well fine, perhaps they were but you'd think in nearly 11 years they'd have made inroads and improvements wouldn't you? If it took me longer than 11 years to correct a problem in my department then I'd find myself at home all day, watching Jeremy Kyle and staring at my P45. Useless shower of nest-feathering twats the lot of them.

Tomrat247 said...

To truly defeat this beast we must first understand it.
My feeling is that this is very much like the mythical hydra, with one major exception - it is willing to sacrifice one or two of its heads so that more can pop up in place.

Look at the situation in the US as the moment; you basically have a choice between 2 forms of fascism: social (the republicans) and economic (the democrats). In either scenario their is erosion of some civil liberty or another, but there are no 'net' concessions - only for gain and consolidation of power.

This is interesting and like wonderfulforhisage said this began at the outset of the cold war; in reality this war is still very much alive, but the weapons it is waged with are much more subtle, and were a lot more sophisticated at an earlier onset than we realised.

Look at the McCarthy era; witchhunts looking for communists imagined and real taking over the US - unprecendented, union-like power that paralysed a nation by the few in power who held to be died in the wool anti-communists. Thousands lost their jobs because of dissent from the party line; but what if the true goal of this exercise and witchhunt was to wealem resolve to look for such conspiracies to overturn the west - would be a lot easier to ignore the devils work if you were told that he didn't exist (no pun intended DK).

My point is really just this - the weapons they use are our own that we used to defend our way of life with - democracy, the media, the internet etc... this is the backbone of terrorist methodology; repatriate the enemies weapons, dig in and conquer by division and terror - this is why there is this perverse relationship between Islamists and the Left, they work the same way.

The solution to this is difficult, but not impossible, and the answer is provided to us by the internet; these blogs and the rise of true independant journalism. Sites like DK's are excellent repositories of information which focus the barebone facts for all to see - we need to apply it to as wide a circle of people as possible. Once we've taken back one arm of their plan sufficiently we can start with the others - using petitions with online consortiums driving the signing of them into the 1000s, writing to our MP's and WARNING them that their jobs, their livelihoods depend significantly on our cooperation, and that that is slowly no longer theirs by right of what the media says. We should discourage voting within party lines - this only encourages group think in the worst possible way and support localist MPs and councillors; those in particular who walk the walk, and not just talk the talk. We should also combine this to pointing out true conspirators, such as "common purpose" which John Trenchard and nourishing obscurity have been observing for some time, and making a note of who, in power, is involved.

I realise my tone is almost conspirational in places but then again the air in the UK is thick with it - whats mine added to clamour and stench of it?

FlipC said...

Just to prove there's no such thing as being too cynical I recall Darling yesterday mentioning how if we had biometric ID cards or information this data loss wouldn't matter.

Budgie said...

flip c is right - the government will push biometrics as the answer to their fantastic incompetence of losing Child Benefit personal data. But on an ID database the biometrics (fingerprints, etc) will have to be digitally recorded. Like any other part of your digital record the biometric data could therefore be hacked, copied and/or stolen, and then used by the fraudsters.

Roger Thornhill said...

Anon@18:08: "So, national databases with personal details - including banking - are a bad idea? Ermm... like that needed to administer a CBI?"

This is one of the problems I have with the CBI.