Wednesday, August 01, 2007

Desktop Linux is shit

Now, via John Gruber, here's an excellent post on Linux and other "freetards" that'll have Dizzy wetting himself in frustration. Take it away Fake Steve (Jobs)!
Freetards, face facts. You've lost. You've had sixteen years to try and build a desktop operating system, and you still can't get your shit together. Nobody wants your software. It's not Microsoft's fault. It's yours. Because trust me, if you truly developed a kick-ass OS with tens of thousands of drivers and easy installation and reliable performance, you'd be winning. But you're not. Firefox caught on, right? Why? Because it rocked.

Desktop Linux, however, is a different story, and in your heart of hearts you know this. It's a bad imitation of Windows and can't even come close to OS X. Want more proof? India rejected the XO machine. Hardly anybody else is placing orders for Negroponte's miracle laptop, despite the low, low price of only one hundred dollars. Now the Chinese don't want Linux. They're not buying into your crazy crusade. Sorry. And you guys are starting to sound like the world's biggeest whiners, constantly blaming everyone around you for your own failures. You're the John Kerry of software.

Not a word of a lie, Fake Steve, not a word of a lie.

47 comments:

countdruncula said...

Ok I'll bite... Inflammatory but not entirely true. "can't even come close to OS X" - oh dear. KDE runs rings around OSX's bullshit interface for the advanced user. KIO slaves provide access to multiple protocols (SSH, FTP, FISH, svn, etc) - the last I heard OSX doesn't even come with FTP access out of the box. They've just about managed to get SMB support ok - bit fucking retarded the way it works, but at least it sorta does. And this is just one of many gripes about OSX.

And bleating about uptake - so popularity is the final arbiter on quality? Good luck with that. I'm perfectly content with what I choose to use and I couldn't give a flying fuck about massive uptake - so long as there is enough interest to keep development going.

Granted a couple of the _apps_ aren't up to scratch (as you've said yourself before). But there are also thousands of free software products that do a fantastic job and don't cost me a penny. Have a look at www.macports.org - you might find all sorts of useful tools for your Fisher-Price OS (nmap springs to mind).

countdruncula said...

P.S. Be very afraid when your hardware fails you and Steve Jobs himself emerges from behind the help desk in the Apple store and arse fucks you. (If you're lucky the racketeering cunts will just present you with a bill instead).

Devil's Kitchen said...

"Ok I'll bite..."

Ha ha! I knew someone would...!

KDE runs rings around OSX's bullshit interface for the advanced user.

And, there! You've nailed it with those final four words: "for the advanced user". The point is that most people aren't advanced users and the amount of setting up, etc. is precisely why Linux is not more popular. To be sure, distributions are getting better (for which read "easier to set up and maintain") but they are very far from being the solid and easy to use convenience that most people want.

Basic users do not want to see or understand how the system works; they don't want to notice it. In the case of Mac OS X, they don't: they simply open up their typing app, or whatever, and get on with the productive bit.

"KIO slaves provide access to multiple protocols (SSH, FTP, FISH, svn, etc) - the last I heard OSX doesn't even come with FTP access out of the box."

No, it doesn't (as far as I know), but why bother? The vast majority of people don't use FTP. And if they want to, well, they can always Google "mac, free ftp app" and up pops the excellent Cyberduck as the first entry.

Alternatively, I am sure that, if they were an advanced user, they could just FFTP through the Terminal.

"And bleating about uptake - so popularity is the final arbiter on quality? Good luck with that."

Come now, I am a Mac user; it's hardly an argument that I would agree with. However, if you read the whole piece, it is talking about the uptake of Windows in China and, as Fake Steve points out, the Chinese are going with the paid-for solution (Windows. Ha! Since when was Windows a solution, eh?) rather than the free one; this would indicated that, for them, they would rather go for the more expensive system. Rather the opposite of what you'd expect if all other things were equal.

"I'm perfectly content with what I choose to use and I couldn't give a flying fuck about massive uptake..."

Well, quite. I wouldn't want Apple taking any more than 10% market share, for instance; after that it would become a far juicier target for hackers and virus-writers.

"But there are also thousands of free software products that do a fantastic job and don't cost me a penny."

Oh, I agree. That has been one of the massive bonuses of Apple's move to a Unix-based system; the proliferation of very cool, free or inexpensive apps.

"Have a look at www.macports.org - you might find all sorts of useful tools for your Fisher-Price OS (nmap springs to mind)."

Actually, that site is a great example of why Open Source stuff often fails: I have had a good look around, but can I find any clue as to what MacPorts actually is? No. It may be in the documentation somewhere, but can I be arsed to find it? No, you've lost my attention, Macports, and I have left your site never to return (unless someone convinces me that I need whatever it is that you are doing).

Oh, and the number of Apple computers that I have owned over the last ten years? 6.

Number of hardware failures (touch wood!): 1 CD drive.

Price to replace? £30 for a new dual DVD-Writer and £10 to Patchburn.

But then, that may be because I take good care of my machines.

DK

dizzy said...

hahah ok I'll bite. Desktop Linux kicks Windows and OSX arse. It has better development, better memory management and better community support. It is not "better" unless you define "better" as " "stupid people can use it easily" in which case it isn't.

Given it is free though, all the non-stupid people can use it easily. Unfortunately such conditions like the inaccesbility for the stupid eliminates every single Mac user in the world and almost all the Windows user with perhaps the exception of modders and gamers who at least have a modicum of clue.

w00t!

dizzy said...

OH yes DK, you no that BBC iPlayer that you cannot run on Mac and will only run on Windows XP. I got in running the other day under Desktop Linux.

POW!

dizzy said...

obviously my use of "no" instead of "know" is a sign of dysluxia[sic] not stupidity.

Harry Haddock said...

You are all completely wrong.

There hasn't been a good operating system since VMS, and that didn't even have a desktop version, because you didn't need one. And those cool green text graphics, awesome. ;-)

Right, I'm off to do a bit of command line wanking.

dizzy said...

hahaha

Devil's Kitchen said...

"hahah ok I'll bite. Desktop Linux kicks Windows and OSX arse. It has better development, better memory management and better community support."

Only if you are an advanced user, Diz.

"It is not "better" unless you define "better" as " "stupid people can use it easily" in which case it isn't."

In some circumstances, that is precisely what better does mean. However, I will take something like Mac OS X, which I can use easily but will allow under the hood programming should I so desire, than something which requires me to spend 83,000,000 years finding and installing a driver every time that I want to add a scanner or some other peripheral. And, crucially, so will most other people.

"Unfortunately such conditions like the inaccesbility for the stupid eliminates every single Mac user in the world..."

Apart, presumably, for the large number of Linux geeks who have bought Macs over the years...?

"OH yes DK, you no that BBC iPlayer that you cannot run on Mac and will only run on Windows XP. I got in running the other day under Desktop Linux."

Then I'm sure I'll be able to get it running in the X11 environment. If I can be arsed to try.

Haddock, you are wrong: Amstrad's desktop machines were the best thing since sliced bread. I mean, no one knew how to use them, but they also had pretty green text on black and they cost even more than Macs so they must have been better.

DK

John Trenchard said...

well my Ubuntu laptop, on which i am posting right now, must be a figment of my imagination so.


anyways DK - you gotta read this blogpost over at eu ref..

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2007/08/supreme-government-of-europe.html

John Trenchard said...

and also DK - is it not odd that a libertarian like yourself is using non-free locked down proprietary software - when there are free (free as in freedom, not free beer) alternatives?

surely you can see the spirit of free software movement, and its inherent individualistic, anti-government, anti-corporate attitude - an attitude i feel that fits perfectly with my own libertarian ideals.

have you read anything by Richard Stallman?

John Trenchard said...

oh - and OS X is based on free BSD software. its foundations are buried deep in the free software movement.

so in effect, we have won the battle already - its OS X. (only that not many realise its actually BSD...)

and that nice Safari browser you use?
well, that uses the KHTML rendering engine - which is part of the KDE project.

just thought i'd point that out.

Dewi said...

Uh oh. A posting like this does bring out the geeks :-)

Just for the record, Mac OS X does do FTP. Click on a ftp link in Safari, and you'll get a FTP window opening in the Finder. Want a file? Drag it on to your desktop.

For all I know, even Windows does this.

(One limitation : you can only copy stuff *from* the window).

If you want to use more arcane protocols, they're available in the Terminal. If you want a nice Mac OS X application instead, you can download and use RBrowser.

John Trenchard said...

dewi -> windows doesnt have an ftp client or server built in.

i dont know why were argueing on the OS X v Linux front, since fundementally , OS X is really BSD (a unix variant) with a nice flashy GUI.

kinda reminds me of the Unix wars of times past (AIX v Solaris v HP-UX), when the real "war" is against Microsoft.

dizzy said...

I think now would be a good time to point out that:

* VMS sucks.
* TOPS-10 sucks in 36 bits.
* TOPS-20 sucks more.
* Solaris sucks, slowly.
* SunOS sucks.
* MS-DOS doesn't qualify, but sucks.
* Ultrix/OSF1/Digital Unix/Whatever-it-is-this-week sucks.
* DG/UX sucks.
* HP/UX sucks.
* Dynix sucks.
* Esix sucks.
* CTIX sucks.
* Coherent sucks.
* SCO sucks, expensively.
* Xenix also doesn't qualify, but sucks.
* Unicos sucks.
* MVS sucks.
* VM sucks.
* CMS sucks.
* NOS sucked.
* NOS/VE sucks, but less so.
* AOS sucks.
* AOS/VS sucks.
* CP/M sucks.
* ComOS sucks in one port and out the other.
* IOS uses BGP to know which of its peers sucks the most.
* Atari TOS sucks the snow off Mt. Fuji.
* QNX sucks in real time.
* All Apple OSes really suck.
* Magic Cap does not qualify, but sucks, graphically.
* Minix sucks.
* (Free|Net|Open)BSD[386] suck.
* BSDI sucks.
* Linux sucks differently every time a kernel is released.
* PR1MOS sucks.
* Venix EDS sucks (and it runs the 777).
* OS/400 sucks, but you don't have access to QSYSLIB/WRKSUKSTS to find out how much.
* OS/9 doesn't qualify, but still sucks.
* OSX sucks
* but OS/2 sucks.
* IRIX sucks.
* AmigaDOS sucks.
* DomainOS sucks.
* GCOS sucks.
* MPE sucks.
* MPE/ix sucks.
* Sinix sucks.
* VS sucks Wang.
* UnixWare sucks.
* Netware doesn't qualify, but sucks.
* Windows 3.1x -- see DOS.
* Windows NT sucks, but not as hard as Windows 3.1.
* Windows 95 doesn't suck; it blows.
* Plan 9 sucks on lots of machines at once.
* Oberon is considered harmful, and sucks.
* Amoeba sucks, distributedly.
* Eunice sucks so bad Larry Wall made special mention of it.
* NextStep sucks, but it's pretty.
* Nachos sucks, but only students know how.
* Mach sucks, but nobody knows how.
* Spring sucks in little pieces all over the place.

They all suck.

Except AIX, which sucks raw eggs through a very thin straw.

Note: above list was stolen

dizzy said...

it's scary how many of those I have logged on to. The HP-UX machine where someone had set the default shell to Csh was fucking crazy.

Milo said...

is it not odd that a libertarian like yourself is using non-free locked down proprietary software - when there are free (free as in freedom, not free beer) alternatives?

I brought that point up on Samizdata once, in relation to iTunes, and got the reply that they didn't care about whether it was "free as in free" or not as long as they didn't have to pay for it.

Anyway, whether $DESKTOP rocks/sucks doesn't matter, as long as one can do what needs to be done on one's computer and exchange files with other users.

For me, that means Linux for work, but I have a Mac at home so that I can use Safari to watch YouTube videos. I could, of course, do that at on one of my Linux boxes at work, but I think that Safari looks nice. The Mac also has a good terminal, GNU screen and zsh, so it is actually usable for some other things.

countdruncula said...

Ok, having refreshed myself and reviewed my previous posts, I'll concede that you are correct about the relatively small inroads made by the free software movement into the desktop demographic. As a linux user, I'd say this is mostly explained by a combination of the lack of decent support for certain mainstream applications and multimedia apps (read DRM for a lot of the latter woes), and a herd mentality on the part of most users.

I've worked as a sysadmin for some years and I've had very little trouble installing linux on machines during that time. A lot of the time a Windows install on a similar machine is missing drivers for such basics as the network card and graphics driver, the former being a serious pain in the arse if it is the only machine available - "Oh, no network card driver, np, will just have a looks on the world wide interwebs and download the fucker. Oh. No fucking network connection". Bear in mind that the vast majority of Windows machines are preinstalled, and that no free software operation has ever had the clout over hardware manufacturers as wielded by Microsoft. So an install is rarely something your average end user expects to encounter. Macs/linux install issues is like comparing disimilar families of fruit - OSX is written with the exact hardware it is expected to encounter in mind, and even then it's gone tits-up on me in the past in a way that no linux install has done. But ditto the same point - it's not the inferiority of the software that's at fault - in this instance it's the likelyhood (or lack thereof) of the user ever having to install the software in the first place that is inhibiting uptake.

In terms of maintenance, as you say, distros are making it much easier. The Debian based distros in particular are a doddle to maintain and others (openSUSE is my personal preference) have made good progress. No more difficult than, say, downloading Jobs' latest unwanted intrusion into your digital modesty with whatever tinpot monopolisation strategy has been dreamt up for that iTunes upgrade.

Google "mac, free ftp app" and up pops the excellent Cyberduck as the first entry. The last time I had some whingeing user in our graphics department banging on about his need for a decent ftp app I furnished him with this and a couple of alternatives - he ended up shelling out for Fetch. This sort of shit works, and works properly, at no extra cost, in a default KDE install. Write access to an ftp server will be necessary one fine day in any reasonably sized corporation, so Safari doesn't quite cut the stuff in that respect. Sure the cli stuff is there - one of the few apps that Apple hasn't chopped out of the default BSD install.

Cost wise, let's see... Personal experience: one ipod (about as far as I'd go giving money to these charlatans, and that was a gift from the more reasonably priced US of A). Cracked screen - replacement quote around £200 - ouch. Sure I could go with some other muppet off the internet, but Apple know my uncertainty as to the calibre of that service and have priced accordingly. Just this week I've had a friendly electronics buff source the repair kit (including screen) for around £15 - he's going to have a crack this weekend - could be a complete cockup, could, just, make me loathe Apple even more!

Other than that, countless goons in my company bleating about how their once gorgeous iMac has had the screen conk out and the replacement costs are outweighing the benefits of purchasing a new machine. One machine in our organisation requires wireless access, for this particular model (Power Mac G5 late 2005) we'd have to decommission it and take it in for one of Steve's droids to install an airport card. No doubt for a small fee. Apple won't even offer me one to purchase online so I can have a crack myself. There's a term for this, it's called vendor lock-in. Gaaaah. Cunts. Long may your good luck with their hardware (admittedly pretty damned good by and large) continue. As you should know, it's not if but when a computer component will fail.

I'd urge you to have a look at macports, btw. If you are in any way familiar with BSD portage or debian/ubuntu's apt-get, you get pretty much the same thing and it is free. No, it isn't for everyone, but as a web monkey you perhaps don't have the aversion to the command line that afflicts the average user. Some kindly souls spend plenty of time tweaking hundreds of free software apps to compile and run under OSX. At times it's been invaluable to me, just this week I tunneled into a Mac in our New York office and installed a vnc client so I could show some Apple fan-boy clown where to clicky his overpriced mouse!

Tito said...

Drivers aren't the fault of the community, they are the fault of the small userbase. But this is starting to get resolved, I'd say 9/10 devices work out of the box in Ubuntu and other modern distributions.

As for lack of software packages and compatibility, I would say there is a far greater range of professional quality applications in Linux than there is in OS X. (Except for studio work, which only caters for power users in Linux at the moment). Plus most Windows and OS X software works fine in Linux.

I too managed to install iPlayer, I just clicked the .exe and it ran perfectly.

Angry Steve said...

All hardware sucks, all software sucks. All users suck. And not in the way I like.

Ubuntu - Ancienct African for "can't install debian"

Linux fails when even advanced users (professional systems administrators) and installs the wrong kernel on a machine randomly. The excuse is "the installer just does that sometimes, you need to mount the disk, copy over the correct kernel and blah blah blah". That is not a desktop operating system. This is by no means user-friendly.

Linux is only free if your time is worthless.

Roger Thornhill said...

Apple has the culture where it acts like it understands my time is valuable. It makes my life easier. It goes to great lengths to do so. Nerds call that trivial or look down on it as if it is "toy". How wrong they are. It is extremely difficult to do what Apple does. Too few software and hardware types have the tenacity or the smarts to do it.

Examples - Apple went for EFI on the motherboard, made FAT Binaries and the ability just to drag the icon from the archive to install software.

I use OSX because I came from a VMS background. I expect things to just work and the computer to just run. I have no intention of spending my time tinkering and remembering perverse commands just to get the basics going.

Harry Haddock said...

Fucking nora. DK posts on the end of democracy, 3 or 4 comments. Posts about a pissing operating system ~ avalanche.

Anyway ~ back to the hunt. I have changed my mind.

You are all wrong.

Spectrum basic was the king.

Dizzy, why didn't GEM feature on you long suck list? I know, not an OS, but neither was Win 3.x.

Are you some kind of GEMophobe?

dizzy said...

GEM sucks

When not sucking Slackware rules.

ps. OSX comes with ftp.. that is the CLI ftop client which is more than adequate to do everything a poncy graphicaly interface can do and then some. man = RTFM

countdruncula said...

Dizzy: Yes, we've established that ftp the cli version is available - try telling a sobbing graphics monkey with a deadline looming to stfu and rtfm though!

Dusanne said...

I normally avoid this type of topic like the plague, but I did like this which I've just read in the FAQs for a Facebook application, regarding Flash plugins:

Windows / MAC users:
You just need to upgrade the Flash plugin for free at:
http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/download.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash

Linux Users:
The steps below are for Kubuntu 7.04 Feisty with Konqueror and the Official Flash plugin available in the Feisty repository. Other dists should have similar instructions.

1.Check that the 'Multiverse' repository is activated for apt-get
2.Install latest version of 'flashplugin-nonfree' (must be 9.x)
- ~$ sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree
- or install with Adept / Synaptic
3.Once installed, open your browser's preferences menu and locate the Plugins section
4.Add the path '/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins' to the plugins.
5.Your browser should now be able to use the flash player, version 9

As it happens, I could probably follow the second set of instructions, but I could count the number of people I know outside the IT community who could, on the fingers of a badly deformed hand.

flashgordonnz said...

I forget who had this link (Croydian? Dizzy?):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okeBJICS_tQ

Tito said...

That isn't how you install Flash player at all. When you first see a flash animation it says "You need Macromedia flash to view all content on this page, would you like to install?". You click yes and it works, no browser reset required.

Wrong kernels don't happen now, there are generic kernels which install by default and will run anything well.

Fophillips said...

I can use easily but will allow under the hood programming should I so desire, than something which requires me to spend 83,000,000 years finding and installing a driver every time that I want to add a scanner or some other peripheral. And, crucially, so will most other people.
Oh, please, the only drivers I have ever installed were graphics drivers (big link on nvidia.com) and wifi driverss (apt-get install madwifi)

Then I'm sure I'll be able to get it running in the X11 environment. If I can be arsed to try.
It has nothing to do with the sodding window system. First of all, I assume you are on an Intel Mac, then you need to get Wine to work (well), then you need to write some nice OS X assembly (good luck finding documentation, seeing as Cocoa isn't entirely documented).

I for one used Macs all my life, and have switched to Linux because OS X is so restricting, and - basically - shit.

Dan Lucraft said...

The problem with Linux on the desktop is not so much that the barriers to entry are steep as that they are impassible, at least in places.

Consider. To make video work right for everyone you need great video drivers. Ati are the second largest manufacturer of graphics chips. Ati refuse to release up-to-date drivers for Linux. Ati refuse to release specifications for their chips to allow other people to write drivers.

How do you get around this? There is an effort to reverse-engineer the Ati graphics cards, but this is difficult, painstaking work, which has to be undertaken by volunteers since the 'enterprise' aren't interested.

This is close to being an insurmountable problem and it isn't an isolated case.

Saying that it hasn't been done because we 'haven't got our shit together' is a stupid fucking thing to say.

Tristan said...

All computers and OSes suck.

We use Linux at work for our workstations and servers. But some versions of Linux won't work on our newest boxes.

I use an ancient linux at home on a server, Mac OS X which is starting to piss me off and Windows which has always pissed me off at home.

Linux pisses me off too.

Linux development has however been driven by the server market for quite a while so the desktop has suffered. That may be changing though.

Anyway, in value for money terms, Linux wins hands down ;)

Anonymous said...

Linux wins. Why:
To obtain it, is FREE.
To modify it or roll your own is FREE.
FREE as in FREEDOM.
This means anyone can obtain linux/unix and make it better for everyone.
Campared to Windows in particular, which is designed as a marketing ploy vulnerable so you need to buy antivirus/firewall, ill equipped so you need to buy office software, no games so you need to buy steam etc etc and yet linux uses programs that are superior in all categories compared to any operating system. This is because it's OPENSOURCE and has unlimited support for ongoing development, without any cost. There are commercial angles too, at any rate if you are too dumb to use it and too lazy to look for help go suck americana bill gates dick for the rest of your life, making it user friendly is a good idea if you dont want to learn anything or have any control. peace!

Anonymous said...

I happen to agree with what the last poster says , well quite a bit of it.

I use both linux and windows. I pride myself on trying to look at the big picture. Heres the thing I am currently learning about operating systens development and if microsoft got a complete monopoly which articles like this are wilfully encouraging then there would be no information on the web for me to learn how to do things independant off windows. The problem is windows has added layer upon layer to the point where in future many people calling themselves programmers are only going to be able to program using the windows api.

Windows however is a good operating system in respect that its very user friendly and great for gaming, there it ends though as far as Im concerned and lets be honest gaming is a huge reason it appeals to the masses! What you have to consider is when MS setup directx they broke from standards and now all games are written specific to directx so thousands of developers are cut out the loop for writing a linux equivalent to directx because it is so microsoft specific they would probably get done for copyright infringment if they came up with an equivalent and hence they are stuck using emulation which when you consider games are demanding on their native windows enviroment anyway well this is not a good solution but is as good as it gets now that this area has been monopolised.

Lets also talk about the ridiculous costs of windows and affiliated software, frankly its ridiculous I have to buy 6 copies of xp to put on my 6 machines when I am just a student at present and I am not making any profit through windows software. Also when you think about windows vista ultimate, that is the biggest scam out there, you pay heaps more than home premium, and for what? for an extra 2 licenses? No you just get 1 license with windows ultimate and a gimmick piece of software. Add to this the fact that yes xp works quite well in some areas now but MS brought out another gimmick i.e directx10 which in my view was to force users to upgrade to vista. Also vista uses more ram and more resources for at least partly for very stupid things, I would rather have a non bloatware style OS and use my processing power and ram purely on what I want to run.

Aside from games linux does okay if you choose a distro with good documentation, It has every bit as good apps as microswoft office and better and for free. I also find it shocking how in some places these days you have people calling themselfs admins based on the fact they can complete a windows install from a cd, its laughable!

Linux does need work in the user friendly department but in saying that have you tried ubuntu 8.04 recently?? everything worked out the box for me without installing a single driver which is something that cant be said for windows. Also in linux I plan to write a bootstrap loader, memory manager and write my own usb driver. Now windows by default you cant install it on a usb external hard drive, I need to be able to do this to aid my development but I couldnt because microsoft doesnt want it, now these open source volunteers you run down have reversed parts of the os and made windows able to install a usb drive and for FREE. Microsoft has some sort of paid solution but it is not the same as what I have been able to do by a long shot.

People REALLY need to start looking at the big picture, without these volunteers who from time to time provide better quality solutions such as the xp to usb solution well dont you see that without them prices would skyrocket? As it stands as this free usb technique spreads MS are forced to come up with a free solution.

Its funny I installed borland 4 on windows the other day and noticed the prices listed , obviously the tech support phone numbers are out of date now but it was £2.00 per minute if you phoned up to try and get a bug fixed caused by installing borland C on windows lol

I admit windows is innovative but some of you do not in my view seem to truely grasp what you are advocating i.e convienance at any cost, who cares if open source dies a death, if knowone can write any programs independant of windows as long as I can play Battlefield 2 I dont care. Seems a kind of short sighted attitude in my opinion.

Windows and linux both have their place and I dont see how someone who wont read the install instructions for apps can effectivly and fairly review the product. I must say though I am an advocate for more clearer and consise, full and accurate documentation for linux but that is happening with certain distros now, namely gentoo, IF you do the pre-requisite reading before installing its a great OS after install.

Like someone says though linux people are mostly volunteers with sometimes multiple real life jobsw who sometimes manage to surpass a multi billion dollar corporation and also with the xp to usb thing it eliminates the use for a laptop and there is why I think Microsoft dont want us booting from usb, its all about money with MS and not truely about giving consumers what they want outwith the shallow goals I have provided so forgive me if I dont feel much of an allegiance with them, they have used open source formats such as coff and many more, added to them then patented some of their ideas as their own thus monopolising as they go. I worry for the future of computing that up and comming people cant recognise this!

Allen said...

Ok, I was a staunch Amiga fan for years... Programmer. Now a pro musician and graphic designer/flash developer. I just had my first experience with Linux through a Eee pc 900... I 100% know now why Linux failed. Firstly, it sucks...I need to get work done, not pretend to be a super nerd by compiling source I download from a repository every 20 minutes to get shit to install. Secondly...Linux hated that windows charged people. The top Linux distributions are now charging and charging for updates. They are trying to remake windows over and over.. More than 400 Linix versions!!!!!! and none of them are worth a penny to me and many others who need to SIMPLY get work done. Bring back my AMIGA!!

countdruncula said...

@Allen:
Sure, you will have to compile some stuff, but (excluding Gentoo, etc) the vast majority of applications are precompiled and readily installed with the right package manager and some repository tweaking.

You go on to state that the top linux distributions charge for updates. Perhaps some of the Enterprise distros will, but we are talking here about desktop linux. Let's have a look at what is widely perceived to be the top four in terms of popularity shall we? Ubuntu? Nope. openSUSE? Nope. Fedora? Nope. Debian? Nope.

Oh, and good luck with your Amiga - have a look under the Vintage Computing section on ebay if you really are that daft.

Anonymous said...

dont want to argue with I'll just say that linux is easy to use, easy to install, easy to configure (dont need to configure at all if use mainstream components), easy to install applications - just look for them in the repository,...
People are using pirates copies of other OS's and are usedto it, and all you are now afraid to change your habits to experiment to explore...
you dont like it ..dont use it, dont bloat it

Anonymous said...

Linux is a sack of shite.

Like many others, I used Windows for years, moved to Mac OSX and found the switch easy .

Bought an Acer Aspire One netbook and got OSX up and running on it with no problems.

Just spent 8 hours trying to get different Linux distros to connect to my network (wired or wireless, past careing) - Nothing. Reboot the same machine into Windows or OSX and connects first time without a problem.

Until Linux can actually work with common hardware out of the box it doesn't stand a chance.

And, to those saying that OSX has a toy interface, Christ what the hell Linux distro are you looking at? All Linux icons I have seen (Ubuntu, Fedora & OpenSuse) look like they've been designed by a retarded chimp. I'm guessing the spod who designs all ITV childrens program logos had a strong input.

Anonymous said...

Used windows for years, don't particulary like Microsoft but hey ho -

Liked the sound of Linx but after trying it first 8 years ago and failing dismally I have been continously waiting for the linux community to get their shit together and produce a system that is usable, I mean widely usable, a system that can be installed in just a few clicks plus a handful of drivers.

the reality is that currently 3 out of my 4 pc's refuse to even boot in to a live distro of ANY type.

Guess what I'm still waiting for the linux community to get their shot together, fact is there are hundreds of thousands of people like me, who would love the chance to run linux but unfortunately the shits at Microsoft for all their failings of which there are many simply have the better system.

Anonymous said...

Linux is shite. Here here!

Anonymous said...

I use Linux at home and Windows at work (except on our servers, obviously) - but only because I'm in a very small minority of computer users (software development/home recording hobby).

For most people it will be utterly inappropriate until it is both highly polished, has ubiquitous application support ,and is designed so that computer skills learnt on Windows are completely transferable.

What I'm not is a whining moaner who thinks that the reason for Linux's poor penetration in the desktop space is a failure on the parts of the users.

Anonymous said...

Linux does suck shit! Take an old piece of hardware like the audigy 4. It is still to this day a lottery if it works on linux or not. No-one has ever managed to make a reliable linux driver for it, that will work on all versions of audigy 4. Then theres the network manager that should be called the network dis-manager because it rarely works right after install. And what about all the crap you have to go through if you want to uninstall your graphics driver? And what about all the friggin' distroes that hardly anyone is ever going to use? How many ubuntu based distros are there?- Every Tom, Dick and Harry has his own version of linux confusing those who want to get into linux because theres so many friggin distros and they aint all that great. I just spent several hours getting my modem to work - by typing in all kinds of weird stuff in the console - in windows and mac stuff just works - on linux stuff just is too much hassle...

Anonymous said...

this is all I'm going to say in response to your potential trolling: It comes down to the economics of capitalism. Using proprietary software is participation with this system. If a gov. wishes for their people to participate within this system *of course* they will avoid technologies which are designed to exist outside of the system

Anonymous said...

I use Linux, Windows and OSX between work uni and home - enough that I've become dissatisfied with aspects of each. I'm am absolutely sick of IT support (even avid Linux supporters) treating intermediate users like myself as *stupid*, because we need our time for other things than the frustrations of unresponsive tech. I am so angry with these people, for making me feel like less of a person, for not going into IT as my chosen career. We aren't using computers as more than a tool (their original purpose, ffs), we don't want a hammer we need to put together from 10 parts (terrible analogy), we just want to get on with building our cupboard.

Linux would be fantastic if it had more superficial flow, and didn't require extensive fiddling to try/use anything new. Such a jarring experience. I've had a lot of trouble with networks, music players, file management - all crucial things to my computer use. I'm aware of Linux's versatility, but it's just not good enough on a superficial level. Fiddling on a mac for a few hours, but only rarely, definitely wins over fiddling with Linux on every use.

I have to say, props to DK for representing users like myself. And seriously, IT people, just take it gracefully, I'm not badgering you to be perfect now, just acknowledging that the things large groups of people whine about can be worth focusing on (sorry, trolls and sensationalists). I look forward to Linux's progress, on this note - amazing people for taking on the challenge of building such a complexity as an entire OS without asking for money.

Anonymous said...

3 words. EMERALD THEME MANAGER. Doesn't work, and like the rest of linux, nobody can tell you how, from start to finish with correct steps, how to make it work. If you linuxbois are so damn great, make some software that actually works and us morons you despise can use.

Anonymous said...

I suggest you try Mint. It runs on the smell of an oily rag, doesn't tap you up for money and antivirus, doesn't keep you in a retard box with 'options' like 'the entire system is fucked and has lost all your data - OK?' Don't get me started on OSX - it is a unix/linux/Free BSD rip-off (which should be free under GNU publice licence) with most of the functionality removed so you have to pay for everything that should have been there in the first place. I wouldn't get a Mac if it was free. XP is OK, Vista sucked arse and Windows 7? Well I guess its OK if you don't mind being sucked into a symbiotic, parasitic interplay between bloated software manufacturers and 'required' hardware upgrades. If you want your computer to belong to you and let you do what you want use linux. Otherwise use M$. Just my $0.02!

Anonymous said...

How did Crapple get away with selling Free BSD?

Devil's Kitchen said...

"How did Crapple get away with selling Free BSD?"

Because it's not FreeBSD: it is a kernel, based upon it, called Darwin. Darwin is Open Source and freely available.

What Apple sell is the systems, frameworks and APIs built on top of Darwin—which are, frankly, the bits that make FreeBSD not shit.

DK

Anonymous said...

Well said. Linux is unprofessional and low quality imitation of high quality operating systems such as Windows/OS X